Keepin' 'Em Stupid, In Texas!!

@NEUROSPORT,

Jack Flash let me say a few words on the false left right paradigm.

The way Wikipedia explains it makes it sound like something obviously ridiculous and untrue. That entry in the Wikipedia was either written by the people working for the government or by people who genuinely do not understand how it actually works.

It is actually not a conspiracy at all. It's just the way things work.

The two parties differ on some issues and they agree on other issues. What happens is the issues on which the parties agree are actually much more important - but they never get discussed - why would they be discussed ? since there is agreement ? right ?

on the other hand the issues on which the parties disagree are relatively unimportant. but they are discussed all the time because there is disagreement on them. and we should argue about them to settle our differences - right ?

but this is absolutely absurd and insane !

There is NO POINT to argue about our differences because we will NEVER come to the agreement. It is 21st century already and we are no closer to agreeing on any of these issues like Gay Marriage which ULTIMATELY DON'T MATTER.

The reason we will never agree is because if we did - the media would be out of a job ! And the media is what forms all of our opinions ! So they create this artificial division themselves in order to later capitalize on it by having us watch their pointless debates.

Meantime the important questions - like what is the mechanism by which we always get only pathological liars as presidents ? Or how is it that the banks that got the bailout money are the same ones whose former CEOs form the US government under Obama ? Or how is it that Presidents come and go but the wall street Bankers are always in the White House ? These questions - THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS - are never asked.

Why are they never asked ? Because it is not in the interest of either the politcians ( both democrat or republican ) - not the media - to ask those questions.

Media and politicians are both very happy with the left-right paradigm which allows them all to make good money on their jobs without much trouble. Meanwhile the american people are getting slaughtered.

This is most crucial to understand.

There is no high-level organized conspiracy as in the ridiculous explanation given by Wikipedia. Instead there is self-censorship. There is MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING of what is convenient and profitable - and what isn't. Media persons and politicians both merely have an UNDRESTANDING of what they should and should not say. Kinda like you have an understanding not to curse at your parents even when they deserve it. But this hurts Americans immensely.

1 Reply

@Mr Shaman,

Gay marriage ultimately does not matter? Healthcare reform ultimately doesn't matter? Who gets taxed ultimately doesn't matter? Abortion doesn't matter? How do they not? Just because the majority of the differences between Democrat and Republican don't affect most people, doesn't mean they don't matter.

1 Reply

@NEUROSPORT,

NEUROSPORT;69821 wrote:

...
with the exception of health care reform Obama has broken virtually all of his campaign promises.

Neurosport, try looking for somewhat objective sources of information. Here's a run-down of Obama's promise-keeping from a less biased viewpoint:

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises

1 Reply

@bisurge,

bisurge;69859 wrote:

Gay marriage ultimately does not matter? Healthcare reform ultimately doesn't matter? Who gets taxed ultimately doesn't matter? Abortion doesn't matter? How do they not?

It's a little hard to explain, but i will try.

Every society has its own culture. No culture is perfect, or even close - they are usually utterly insane.

Friedrich Nietzsche said it best:

[IMG]Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.[/IMG]

Now even though every culture is insane, or at least severely detached from any objective thinking - people within each culture FEEL and BELIEVE that their culture is "right" one. This is the same as Christians believe their religion is right and all other religions are false - and Muslims believe the same thing - and so do the Jews etc.

Now imagine if 80% of all news coverage was Christians, Muslims and Jews arguing about which religion is best ? It would be absurd. And yet this is more or less exactly what is going on right now when Republicans argue with Democrats.

Because something like Gay Marriage is almost purely a cultural question. Now if Gays were actually forbidden from having sex or from living together - that would by TYRANNY. But their right to use a WORD "marriage" instead of "civil union" is rather trivial.

The problem i have with all this - is that ACTUAL TYRANNY is rampant and yet NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT. nor does anybody talk about CORRUPTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

if we didn't have more serious ( MUCH more serious ) issues which AREN'T DISCUSSED AT ALL then i would have no objection to disussing Gay Marriage. But truth is even if i was Gay i would be more concerned about the fact for example that 9-11 was an inside job than about the fact that i can't call my boyfriend "husband'.

1 Reply

@jpn of Seattle,

jpn of Seattle;69861 wrote:

Neurosport, try looking for somewhat objective sources of information. Here's a run-down of Obama's promise-keeping from a less biased viewpoint:

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises

there is nothing objective about counting promises kept and broken. some promises are trivial and some are not. if you keep 365 trivial promises like ( i promise to brush my teeth every day ) and break one promise ( i promise not to kill you in your sleep ) - have you been honest ?

1 Reply

@Mr Shaman,

I agree that gay marriage and civil union is not the biggest question; I do find it discriminatory however that so many people think that they can express their love publicly and gays can't. That's pretty much saying gay love, and thus gays, are inferior.
But what about who to be taxed and healthcare reform? Those affect millions of lives.
Also, people haven't proven that 9-11 was an inside job. It's just a theory out there that might be true. I don't know anymore.

1 Reply

@JackFlash,

JackFlash;69837 wrote:

Everyone lies at times and everyone occasionally mis-states his/her position, it's part of being human.

There is nothing human about politicians at Obama's level. Read this:

A Radical Blackfoot

0 Replies

@NEUROSPORT,

NEUROSPORT;69858 wrote:

on the other hand the issues on which the parties disagree are relatively unimportant. but they are discussed all the time because there is disagreement on them. and we should argue about them to settle our differences - right ?

While both parties suffer from the need to raise millions of dollars in order to run competitive campaigns, Democrats and Republicans differ significantly on a number of crucial issues.

Democrats tend to believe in mainstream view of economics, science, and social policy. Republicans, in contrast, (and I'm talking about the national leadership of both parties) believe in minority views in these subjects.

The bottom line is that Republicans more obviously more corporate whores that the Democrats are, and it shows in key policy areas:

In economics, they believe that tax cuts and tax cuts alone solve everything. Therefore, when we faced a severe recession and perhaps even a depression, their only prescription was...a spending freeze. I mean, Jesus H. Christ.

In science, since they are so hard-over against environmental concern in favor of maximizing short-term profits, that they claim that global warming is a hoax, or at the very least they claim that we should do nothing significant to address the growing crisis. This is the biggest policy issue of our future, and the GOP is completely compromised on it.

In social policy they have sold out to the religious whackos, so are against common sense sex education in schools, against programs of distributing condoms, against gay rights, and want to teach creationism in our schools.

The most recent example of the way the GOP are corporate whores is the five conservative members of the Supreme Court deciding that corporations get to contribute their billions into our elections. Say good-bye to the last vestiges of Democracy, thanks to the GOP corporate whores.

There's a difference between the two parties, and it's naive to claim otherwise.

1 Reply

@bisurge,

bisurge;69842 wrote:

I just like Obama more than most presidents because even though he didn't do much in his first year (but he's improving now thanks to the Massachusetts loss), he made attempts to keep his promises that many presidents did not. And I think attempts are better than the nothingness most presidents presented us with.

That's just your perception that he is doing things. Republicans thought Bush did a lot because thanks to him a million Iraqis ended up dead - but in actuality all the wars the government is fighting - war in Iraq, Afghanistan, War on Terror, War on Drugs - are all AT BEST accomplish nothing positive.

You will not understand until you start thinking outside the left-right paradigm.

1 Reply

@NEUROSPORT,

NEUROSPORT;69864 wrote:

there is nothing objective about counting promises kept and broken. some promises are trivial and some are not. if you keep 365 trivial promises like ( i promise to brush my teeth every day ) and break one promise ( i promise not to kill you in your sleep ) - have you been honest ?

The promises that are used in the numbers are available for you to review. Considering the speed of your response to my post, you didn't even begin to review the actual data.

In short, you have your opinion and you aren't about to let something like, you know, facts dissuade you, right? :beat:

1 Reply

@NEUROSPORT,

NEUROSPORT;69869 wrote:

That's just your perception that he is doing things. Republicans thought Bush did a lot because thanks to him a million Iraqis ended up dead - but in actuality all the wars the government is fighting - war in Iraq, Afghanistan, War on Terror, War on Drugs - are all AT BEST accomplish nothing positive.

You will not understand until you start thinking outside the left-right paradigm.

So wars are important because they affect so many lives, but healthcare isn't even though it affects so many lives? According to your left-right paradigm.

1 Reply

@Mr Shaman,

Also, I have to agree with jpn on this one. Unless you can find all the important promises that Obama has kept and broken, then you have no right to say that he has broken more important promises than he has kept.

1 Reply

@JackFlash,

JackFlash;69845 wrote:

To seek "bipartisanship" was one of his campaign promises. He made a concerted effort, but the Republicans shot him down.

There is no disputing that the Democrats brought us out of the Great Depression, which was the second one the Republicans caused, and a Democratic Congress led this nation through the most prosperous times in our history. The rise of the Republican Party was the beginning of the mess we have now. This nation went from surpluses when Clinton left office to over 10 trillion in debt by the time Bush left. In the meantime they lifted the restrictions on the banks and Wall Street that protected us from the greed of Capitalism. They put God in the White House and clearly defined who is a "good citizen" and who is a "bad citizen," dividing the people of this country.

The conspiracy is not Republican and Democratic parties, the conspiring is taking place on K Street and is being played out in the Republican Party under the cloak of God and Patriotism.

Let us prey

You said a lot of things, and some of them i even agree with - like the fact that loosening regulations on Wall Street contributed to the collapse.

HOWEVER !

You are WAY OFF on your statements about the great depression. Great Depression is an EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL topic. Actually the view ( which i share ) that everything FDR did only caused to DEEPEN and PROLONG the depression - is widely held - it is just not something that is FREELY discussed in the mainstream media.

YouTube - Why You've Never Heard of the Great Depression of 1920

1 Reply

@JackFlash,

JackFlash;69845 wrote:

The conspiracy is not Republican and Democratic parties, the conspiring is taking place on K Street and is being played out in the Republican Party under the cloak of God and Patriotism.

Let us prey

i WISH that was the case. i WISH democrats didn't ALSO follow the agenda set forth by those think tanks.

but the UGLY TRUTH is that even though we like to think, for example, of Republicans as starting the Iraq war - of all the Democratic presidential candidates during the primaries - ONLY ONE ( Dennis Kucinich ) voted against the war. Republicans also had just one ( Ron Paul ).

the truth is that BOTH parties are equally atrocious.

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@NEUROSPORT,

NEUROSPORT;69874 wrote:

You are WAY OFF on your statements about the great depression. Great Depression is an EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL topic. Actually the view ( which i share ) that everything FDR did only caused to DEEPEN and PROLONG the depression - is widely held - it is just not something that is FREELY discussed in the mainstream media.

Wrong. In serious (non-wingnut) economic circles, there is little disagreement that massive government spending brought the U.S. out of the severe depression.

1 Reply

@bisurge,

bisurge;69865 wrote:

I agree that gay marriage and civil union is not the biggest question; I do find it discriminatory however that so many people think that they can express their love publicly and gays can't.

i suppose you've never been to San Francisco. FULLY NAKED gay couples walk around on the street there. if i didn't see it with my own eyes i might not have believed it.

bisurge;69865 wrote:

But what about who to be taxed and healthcare reform? Those affect millions of lives.

approximately 1/2 of all the tax money government collects goes absolutely nowhere. this as i see it is the MAIN problem. exactly WHO pays most of the taxes in my view is somewhat irrelevant. in the end it is the overall cost to society that is more important in my view.

when social security was introduced people were very happy because they were told that their employer will pay 1/2 and they will only pay the other 1/2. but what people can't understand is that it doesn't matter whose name is on the check - the cost is still the same. and any money employer has to pay to social security - is the money he will not pay you.

bisurge;69865 wrote:

Also, people haven't proven that 9-11 was an inside job. It's just a theory out there that might be true. I don't know anymore.

the word "prove" is deliberately used in the context of something like 9-11 by people who simply want to believe their government.

the truth is this word cannot be applied to such a situation. "proof" makes sense in a mathematical problem where everything needed for the proof is contained in the statement of the problem.

when all the evidence is being kept classified by the government - the word "proof" does not make sense any more. how can you prove that B follows from A when the government destroyed A ? The first thing they did was to block off the scene from everybody, ship the steel beams to China and melt them down so that nobody can examine the nature of the collapse. even so the few photos of the columns that were snapped clearly show controlled demolition by thermite.

But even without access to those beams it is still absolutely obvious that 9-11 was an inside job when you simply consider what happened to WTC7 building and consider the role of Larry Silverstein in 9-11 events.

0 Replies

@jpn of Seattle,

jpn of Seattle;69868 wrote:

While both parties suffer from the need to raise millions of dollars in order to run competitive campaigns, Democrats and Republicans differ significantly on a number of crucial issues.

Democrats tend to believe in mainstream view of economics, science, and social policy. Republicans, in contrast, (and I'm talking about the national leadership of both parties) believe in minority views in these subjects.

The bottom line is that Republicans more obviously more corporate whores that the Democrats are, and it shows in key policy areas:

In economics, they believe that tax cuts and tax cuts alone solve everything. Therefore, when we faced a severe recession and perhaps even a depression, their only prescription was...a spending freeze. I mean, Jesus H. Christ.

In science, since they are so hard-over against environmental concern in favor of maximizing short-term profits, that they claim that global warming is a hoax, or at the very least they claim that we should do nothing significant to address the growing crisis. This is the biggest policy issue of our future, and the GOP is completely compromised on it.

In social policy they have sold out to the religious whackos, so are against common sense sex education in schools, against programs of distributing condoms, against gay rights, and want to teach creationism in our schools.

The most recent example of the way the GOP are corporate whores is the five conservative members of the Supreme Court deciding that corporations get to contribute their billions into our elections. Say good-bye to the last vestiges of Democracy, thanks to the GOP corporate whores.

There's a difference between the two parties, and it's naive to claim otherwise.

You make some valid points. The supreme court decision regarding corporate funding of campaigns was ABSOLUTELY CRIMINAL.

And yet your partisanship still caused you to reject the notion that global waring is a hoax without really examining the evidence. Because in actuality it IS a hoax. And it has nothing to do with environment AT ALL. And oil companies are not against it. In fact it was the head of ENRON who was Al Gore's buddy before he was convicted who set up the whole Carbon Trading scheme which Global Warming is all about.

Global Warming is the biggest fraud of our time - bigger than even the 9-11 Inside Job.

If you really care i might be able to dig up some reading and videos for you on the subject.

jpn of Seattle;69868 wrote:

There's a difference between the two parties, and it's naive to claim otherwise.

You made me smile. It is not naive - it is wise.

Both parties are for the most part on the same page with Global Warming, 9-11, and the Bank Bailouts - the three biggest crimes of our lifetime ( so far ! ). McCain rushed with Obama during the elections to urge the bailouts. Global Warming was not attacked by republicans until the e-mails were leaked even though it was well known before that that global warming was a fraud ( at least it was well known to me ). And 9-11 ? Did democrats try to expose the inside job ? Did they vote against the war in Iraq ?

Sorry man. I wish you were right.

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@NEUROSPORT,

NEUROSPORT;69863 wrote:

The problem i have with all this - is that ACTUAL TYRANNY is rampant and yet NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT. nor does anybody talk about CORRUPTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

Try watching Bill Moyer on PBS. He only gets better every year.

1 Reply

@jpn of Seattle,

jpn of Seattle;69870 wrote:

The promises that are used in the numbers are available for you to review. Considering the speed of your response to my post, you didn't even begin to review the actual data.

In short, you have your opinion and you aren't about to let something like, you know, facts dissuade you, right? :beat:

Did you watch my movie ?

Watch it from beginning to end, paying close attention to everything being said and then i will review your data.

I think that would be fair.

0 Replies

@bisurge,

bisurge;69871 wrote:

So wars are important because they affect so many lives, but healthcare isn't even though it affects so many lives? According to your left-right paradigm.

No. That's not it.

Wars are important because it is a choice between having everybody alive and well FOR FREE and paying hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars to murder people and rip their bodies to shreds.

Health care is a choice between spending more money than we have to get halfway decent care and even more money to maybe have a little more decent care.

in one instance the choice is CLEAR and we still manage to get it WRONG.

in the other case there really isn't much choice - you just get what you pay for - for the most part. no matter how you slice it - you still get what you pay for. and even if it was possible to make a difference by optimizing efficiency - nobody is touching THAT angle of the problem. all the talk is either about the aspects which ultimately make no difference ( do not improve efficiency ) or about things which ultimately people can only delude themselves into thinking they understand - but reality come nowhere close because of the complexity of the issue.

i consider myself highly intelligent but i never followed the health care debate because i knew from the start the issue was simply too complex to have any kind of reasonable debate about it on the main stream media. MSM manages to turn into mud the discussion of even the subjects in which everything is obvious - like the war on Terror, 9-11, War on Drugs etc.

the health care debate is a distraction. regardless of the outcome the big pharma and insurance companies will win and the people will lose - that i can guarantee you.

if the government had any concern whatsoever about the well being of people they would simply ban poisonous foods - but the government ( FDA ) is owned by biotech companies ( Monsanto ) and farmers unions ( which in turn are Monsanto's clients ) so that will never happen.

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