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How Will Health Care Reform Control Costs and Reduce the Deficit?

 
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 03:44 pm
@georgeob1,
From the data I've seen, the practices of the for-profit insurance industry are far more vicious than those of government-run healthcare systems.

So your complaint rings a little hollow, since the system we are under now is worse than the system you're arguing against.
Rockhead
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 03:57 pm
@georgeob1,
"People aren't sheep. They can make their own decisions for themselves, and in this, and other areas of life, they must live with the consequences of the choices they make."

you are right, George, people are not sheep.

most farmers make sure ALL of their sheep get medical treatment.

that way something doesn't spread to the rest of the flock...

I never realized that getting a serious disease while between jobs was the result of my poor decision making.

can you please explain it for me, Ob...?

your compassion overwhelms me...
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 05:44 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

From the data I've seen, the practices of the for-profit insurance industry are far more vicious than those of government-run healthcare systems.

So your complaint rings a little hollow, since the system we are under now is worse than the system you're arguing against.


If you don't like the terms of the policy offered, don't buy it. No one (except the government) is forcing you to buy anything. I doubt that the practices of health insurers are qualitatively any different from those of auto insurance companies, life insurers or, for that matter general liability insurers for businesses. In all of these areas you are making a bet involving the certain payment of a known premium in exchange for protection from a lower probability of a greater loss. What have you got against profits? They are the source of the capital that is behind the operations of most employers and a very large part of the tax collections of the government you appear to expect to take care of you.

Most people spend far more on automobiles than on healthcare. A major part of the problem is that we have grown accustomed to others paying for health care , and no longer consider these costs in our financial planning. Freedom, self-reliance and responsibility go together.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 05:47 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:


I never realized that getting a serious disease while between jobs was the result of my poor decision making.


There's no connection at all. However failing in such a case to take advantage of your COBRA rights when l;eaving the first employer or buying at least catastrophic coverage when you left is surely a serious error. People make seriuous errors all the time and must deal with the consequences of them. There's no general remedy for that.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:00 pm
@georgeob1,
you are assuming that I was in a job that offered insurance.

nope, I worked for small businesses that cannot afford to offer benefits.

so now my career choice is at fault...

I guess I should have chosen to be a rich capitalist instead.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:04 pm
@georgeob1,
and another real world question...

have you any clue how much it costs to carry a cobra plan after your employer turns you loose?

it's a staggering figure...
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:08 pm
@Rockhead,
People make bad choices all the time and sometimes the consequences hit them. I had a friend who decided to take a spin in a new car going south down California Route 1 from Carmel after a few hours of drinks and conversation in a friendly bar there.l. It's a hilly and winding two lane coastal road down a mountainous shoreline. Later he and the weckage of his car were found 400 feet below the road on the beach. Poor decision.
Rockhead
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:10 pm
@georgeob1,
real life is all about being left with only bad decisions. unless you are born with a silver spoon.

I care more about what happens to human beings when nature doesn't allow a "good" decision.

your point of view has a nasty aftertaste of elitism...
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:11 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

and another real world question...

have you any clue how much it costs to carry a cobra plan after your employer turns you loose?

it's a staggering figure...


Yes I do. One must pay the full cost of the premium that the employer negotiated. However it is generally much cheaper to take this option than to attempt to buy the same coverage from another insurer. Alternatively you could buy a cheaper policy that didn't cover routine preventative care but instead covered only catastrophic costs after a large deductasble. Such policies are relatively cheap.

How much do you pay for auto insurance?
Rockhead
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:12 pm
@georgeob1,
what does my auto insurance have to do with my health?

I choose to drive. I won't die if I can't drive.

your a bit of a prick about this, George...
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:18 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

real life is all about being left with only bad decisions. unless you are born with a silver spoon.

I care more about what happens to human beings when nature doesn't allow a "good" decision.

your point of view has a nasty aftertaste of elitism...


I think you have very unrealistic expectations of life. I'm sure the folks in Greece who have been evading their taxes and voting for politicians who promised them a permanent free lunch are also quite indignant, and perhaps some like you are even blaming nature for their troubles. However the truth is something different. Highly regulated labor markets and excessively expensive social welfare programs have led to high public debt; very high unemployment among the young; and very unrealistic expectations among some sectors of their public in many areas of Europe. Unfair as it certainly seems to many of them, the party in several areas of the continent may be ending. Nature isn't fair to any of us. The sooner you learn that the better for you.. That's honesty, not elitism.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:18 pm
I'll take this a notch further...

what is to stop them from going on to the next level.

yes, you have lung cancer, but...

let's take a look at your history a bit...

ooops.

you're a smoker.

very bad decision, you.

nope, we can't cover that...

America the Beautiful.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:19 pm
@georgeob1,
soooo.

nature isn't fair, so healthcare doesn't have to be either.

**** the poor...


Nice.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  3  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:20 pm
@georgeob1,
"The sooner you learn that the better for you.. "

**** you, George.

may you never need for anything your money can't buy...

I'm done.

off to find some goats.//
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jun, 2012 10:36 pm
@Rockhead,
When the company I worked for went broke in 1998 it was $800 per person per family.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Thu 21 Jun, 2012 07:11 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
If you don't like the terms of the policy offered, don't buy it.

When was the last time you went shopping for health insurance? Trust me, the only policies that are really affordable are those subsidized by the employer. If you're lucky, you have a choice of two or three plans.

The employers have a love/hate relationship with health insurance. On the one hand, it's a pain in the ass for them every year to re-evaluate the plans and negotiate prices. On the other, employees are afraid to lose health insurance, so it's something that helps retention. Fear! Embrace it today.

georgeob1 wrote:
Most people spend far more on automobiles than on healthcare.

That's an absurd statistic; I'm embarrassed for you that you would even interject it.

1) Healthcare premiums are often paid by the employer, so it helps out your little red herring "statistic."
2) Most people are healthy and don't go to the doctor much, so it helps out your little red herring "statistic."

Health insurance is by definition something that spreads premiums among a large population to offset the costs incurred by the few.

I'm left with two possibilities. Either you don't understand the subject matter, or you're deliberately interjecting idiocy (otherwise known as dishonesty).

Which is it?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 21 Jun, 2012 08:13 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I doubt that the practices of health insurers are qualitatively any different from those of auto insurance companies, life insurers or, for that matter general liability insurers for businesses.


I can tell you that it's an entirely different game - particularly in the U.S.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 21 Jun, 2012 08:15 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

It makes good sense also for the bureaucrats who run the Canadian and British health care systems. They too practice rationing of access to specialists and limiting the treatments they make available to those they presumably serve, based on cost.


nope. not the case in Canada.

the doctors make the decisions, not the bureaucrats
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 21 Jun, 2012 08:16 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Apparently you bought it too.


nope.

I did the research and have real-life experience of over 30 years in various aspects of the business. I've got opinions and knowledge.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Thu 21 Jun, 2012 08:26 am
@ehBeth,
It's clear, to me, at least, that the tide is turning against employer-centric health insurance in the US.

Witness the health care reform that Obama got passed.

Once again, the Republicans offer nothing but foot-dragging, in an attempt to delay the inevitable.

Don't the Republicans get tired of being on the wrong side when the history books are written?
 

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