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The Danger of Obama

 
 
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 02:25 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63602 wrote:
The Conservative attack method is simple.

Opponents abroad? Terrorists. (Added 2001 (c)neoCON)

Opponents domestic? Communists.

C'mon, McCarthy taught us this! He did nothing but speculate and fear monger. Hermann Goering said it even better:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."


Barack Obama wants more economic regulation. Economic regulation is socialism, plain and simple. Please don't make me draw it in crayon for you.

Oh, and I'm not a conservative.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jan, 2009 01:49 am
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63603 wrote:
I asserted no such thing. Surely you know the difference between socialism and communism.


But the people who assert such things often don't know the difference.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jan, 2009 01:51 am
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63604 wrote:
Barack Obama wants more economic regulation. Economic regulation is socialism, plain and simple. Please don't make me draw it in crayon for you.

Oh, and I'm not a conservative.


I believe I went over this in another thread. I already explained why having economic regulation is not a bad thing.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2009 05:37 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63606 wrote:
I believe I went over this in another thread. I already explained why having economic regulation is not a bad thing.


Whether or not you think socialism is a good or bad thing is not the issue (though it does raise questions as to your degree of economic understanding). The regulation of trade beyond criminalization of theft or fraud is the assertion of greater right to property than the individual on the part of the state. State ownership of the means of production (property) is socialism.

Capitalism has done more to advance human understanding of science, technology, and society than any other human force. It represents the highest level of human advancement to date and so to revert to the socialist model would be UNHEALTHY and UNPRECEDENTED.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2009 05:38 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63605 wrote:
But the people who assert such things often don't know the difference.


You are clearly one of them.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2009 06:07 am
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63609 wrote:
You are clearly one of them.


yes clearly

Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2009 09:23 pm
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63604 wrote:
Barack Obama wants more economic regulation. Economic regulation is socialism, plain and simple. Please don't make me draw it in crayon for you.

Oh, and I'm not a conservative.


Economic regulation is socialism? Surely you jest.

See, there's a difference between enforcing rules, which we know as regulation and the state owning and controlling every aspect of business, which we know as socialism.

Want this drawn in crayon?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 07:52 am
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63608 wrote:
Whether or not you think socialism is a good or bad thing is not the issue


Business regulation =/= socialism

:thumbdown:
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 04:34 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63626 wrote:
Business regulation =/= socialism

:thumbdown:


Business regulation equates to state ownership of property, which is the definition of socialism.

If you own something, you have complete control over it. You can sell it, use it, consume it, or destroy it. When the state tells an individul what they can or cannot do with their property outside of prohibition of violations of the rights of others, the state has effectively seized control of the means of production (property).

Example:

A sixteen year-old has a car, does he own it? Probably not. His parents likely hold the title and therefore can tell him how to maintain it and when to drive it. Thus while he has custodial ownership of the vehicle, he doesn't actually own squat, and so if his parents choose to sell the car, tough cookies.

If the government can dictate with whom and under what circumstances I can trade my property, they are effectively expressing ownership of said property since they assume ultimate authority over its disposition. Thus, while I have custodial ownership of property in a regulated economy, my actual ownership of anything amounts to exactly dick.

Go take a few classes on IPE, IE, ME, or PT before attempting to refute a factually accurate statement.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 04:36 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63616 wrote:
Economic regulation is socialism? Surely you jest.

See, there's a difference between enforcing rules, which we know as regulation and the state owning and controlling every aspect of business, which we know as socialism.

Want this drawn in crayon?


Again, if the state can dictate with whom and under what circumstances I am permitted to trade, it exercises a higher degree of control over my property than I do, which makes it the effective owner of all property governed by economic regulation. This is intro political theory, not Agambenian notions of homo sacer, so you should be able to figure this out.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 07:03 am
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63630 wrote:
Again, if the state can dictate with whom and under what circumstances I am permitted to trade, it exercises a higher degree of control over my property than I do, which makes it the effective owner of all property governed by economic regulation. This is intro political theory, not Agambenian notions of homo sacer, so you should be able to figure this out.


By your logic, Ponzi schemes should be legal. It IS the government telling you how you can and cannot conduct business.

And your idea of "effective owner" is so far off it isn't funny. The government does not own your business or property, it just makes sure you don't screw anybody with it. Funny we've seen quite a bit of that going around without all that pesky regulation.

Look at the markets and economy. THIS is the result of your deregulation, starting with the removal of glass-steigall and ending with "We might have a problem...". When there are few regulations, people will get screwed. Think Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff, Fannie, Freddie, AiG, Citi (thank you Obama for smacking THAT down), so on and so forth. You've had your chance to show how less rules makes things work. You failed. Horribly.

I'd love for you to show me where any of what you are saying is intro to anything besides wackjob conspiracy theory I-drink-the-koolaid-by-the-gallon thinking.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 08:16 am
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63629 wrote:


If you own something, you have complete control over it. You can sell it, use it, consume it, or destroy it.


never owned a dog before have you?
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 09:27 pm
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;63629 wrote:
Business regulation equates to state ownership of property, which is the definition of socialism.


Alright.

Using your logic again:

No regulations on what chemicals are used in our food. That's socialism.
No regulations on vehicle safety. That's socialism.
No regulations on pollution and waste dumping. That's socialism.
No regulations on pharmaceutical drug safety. That's socialism.

Now, do you want an example of how your ignorance can kill you?

http://www.chaucerseesamerica.com/images/grand-tour/revigator.JPG

This is a revigator. Old looking thing. It's a water jar, for potable water. Inside there is an isotope of radium. To answer the question next in your head: yes, it *literally* irradiates the water with radon... which, according to the manufacturer, makes the water "awake" and good for you.

Wonder why it isn't sold? According to you: socialism.

So, quoting a line from quite some time ago... You arrogant ass, you'd kill us all.
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2009 04:27 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63616 wrote:
Economic regulation is socialism? Surely you jest.

See, there's a difference between enforcing rules, which we know as regulation and the state owning and controlling every aspect of business, which we know as socialism.


What do you think has happened? The government put the bait out.
Bailout. The fish bit. Except for Ford. Now, the corporations will do as they are told. They have a new master.
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2009 04:31 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63632 wrote:
By your logic, Ponzi schemes should be legal. It IS the government telling you how you can and cannot conduct business.


His logic does not favor ponzi schemes. It is merely that the government should stay out of economics until laws are broken. All that is required of them is to prosecute criminals when crimes are committed. Making or losing profit is not illegal, yet.

But, Obama did say yesterday that this is not the time for making profits.
0 Replies
 
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2009 04:37 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63643 wrote:
Alright.

Using your logic again:

No regulations on what chemicals are used in our food. That's socialism.
No regulations on vehicle safety. That's socialism.
No regulations on pollution and waste dumping. That's socialism.
No regulations on pharmaceutical drug safety. That's socialism.


Not one time have you seen a libertarian or a conservative object to regulation concerning public safety. If so, give an example. The arguments concern economics. But, you probably feel compelled to change the subject.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 05:43 am
@g-man,
g-man;63666 wrote:
What do you think has happened? The government put the bait out.
Bailout. The fish bit. Except for Ford. Now, the corporations will do as they are told. They have a new master.


Take your conspiracies elsewhere, I will not hear of them. :thumbdown:
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2009 05:45 am
@g-man,
g-man;63668 wrote:
Not one time have you seen a libertarian or a conservative object to regulation concerning public safety. If so, give an example. The arguments concern economics. But, you probably feel compelled to change the subject.


Have a regulation that wasn't intended for public safety?
0 Replies
 
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2009 06:11 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63689 wrote:
Take your conspiracies elsewhere, I will not hear of them. :thumbdown:


Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Heh?

Since 02-01-09 when you posted this, your government has passed another bailout that will ensure the enslavement of corporate America.
Barry has stated that now is not the time for making a profit.
"Profit" is the goal of business. The moron mis-speaks again...?
I'm old, I've never witnessed a president ASSume so much power.
He's just getting started.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:56 am
@g-man,
g-man;63799 wrote:
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Heh?

Since 02-01-09 when you posted this, your government has passed another bailout that will ensure the enslavement of corporate America.
Barry has stated that now is not the time for making a profit.
"Profit" is the goal of business. The moron mis-speaks again...?
I'm old, I've never witnessed a president ASSume so much power.
He's just getting started.


I will leave you to wallow in your own pool of bitterness and paranoia. There is nothing that merits a response in this post anyway...
0 Replies
 
 

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