westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 06:08 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;64003 wrote:
No the double standard is in saying you should support your president and respect the government and then say the exact opposite when the opposing party wins office.


I totally agree. I got so darn tired of eight years of Bush hating that I was glad to see a dem get elected but the Bush hating goes on and on and on...

Just because I don't have a love fest going for Obama does not mean that I don't respect the office and government - when they do the will of the people. It's when they say one thing and do another... double standards I guess.

Besides, who says we have to "support" our President? I have never heard that that was a prerequisite of being a citizen of the US. If we disagree with his agenda do we have to support it? No! I don't support abortions. I don't support welfare and handouts. I don't support giving illegals freebies. I don't support the non-issue of global warming.

I don't support the idea of the UN. I don't support the freedom of terrorists. There are many, many things that I don't support that Obama will do. Why is that wrong? That's why I'm a conservative and he's a liberal. Totally different idealogies! Now tell me why that's a double standard!
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 09:55 am
@westernmom,
westernmom;64010 wrote:
I totally agree. I got so darn tired of eight years of Bush hating that I was glad to see a dem get elected but the Bush hating goes on and on and on...

Just because I don't have a love fest going for Obama does not mean that I don't respect the office and government - when they do the will of the people. It's when they say one thing and do another... double standards I guess.

Besides, who says we have to "support" our President? I have never heard that that was a prerequisite of being a citizen of the US. If we disagree with his agenda do we have to support it? No! I don't support abortions. I don't support welfare and handouts. I don't support giving illegals freebies. I don't support the non-issue of global warming.

I don't support the idea of the UN. I don't support the freedom of terrorists. There are many, many things that I don't support that Obama will do. Why is that wrong? That's why I'm a conservative and he's a liberal. Totally different idealogies! Now tell me why that's a double standard!


Well my feeling is that I should respect my government when that respect is earned.

as for who said we should support our president, it was Sean Hannity.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 09:02 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;64018 wrote:
Well my feeling is that I should respect my government when that respect is earned.

as for who said we should support our president, it was Sean Hannity.


Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, hell even Brittney Spears said it.

I can provide video/audio clips.

Remember, it was UNAMERICAN and TREASONOUS to question the president, because if you weren't with us, you were a TERRORIST.

I remember that well. WMom, for us that is seared deep into the scar known as 9/11.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 09:05 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;63999 wrote:
conservative news organization


Goodnight, everybody!

Quote:
Their hard news has a conservative voice, but nothing beyond, and in most cases softer, then the stuff put out by CBS and CNN during the 08 election.


So you are agreeing that Fox has a conservative slant.

Quote:
My real beef is with the indoctrination that goes on within your clicks. When I describe thins like the ACLU and planned parenthood I refer to them as "liberal leaning", when you guys talk about Fox News or other "red" organizations you more often then not call them "evil". Classifying anything you find with an opposing view as "evil lies" rather then "counter views" is radical ideology, the kind that drives wedges between the bipartisan efforts the country needs right now.


Bipartisan. Excuse me while I laugh.

(20 minutes later)

Okay, I'm better. Since when have conservatives cared about bipartisanship? Oh, that's right... the second you guys lost power.

Two words: Nuclear Option. That sums up conservative bipartisanship.

Quote:
Anyone who needs to understand what's wrong with deviceive partisanship needs to go read Washington's farewell address


Or simply look at the first eight years of the 21st century.
0 Replies
 
westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 02:47 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Ahhhh, there is a difference in respect and support. I can respect you for your opinion but I don't have to support it!

I have respect for the Pope but don't support or believe in his Church. I have respect for Barbara Streisand's music but won't support her by purchasing it.

And, guess what, just cause Sean Hannity says it, doesn't mean I have to do it! Same with the President of the US. Unless it's the law of the land I can have differing opinions and can go my own way!
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 02:55 am
@westernmom,
westernmom;64039 wrote:
Ahhhh, there is a difference in respect and support. I can respect you for your opinion but I don't have to support it!

I have respect for the Pope but don't support or believe in his Church. I have respect for Barbara Streisand's music but won't support her by purchasing it.

And, guess what, just cause Sean Hannity says it, doesn't mean I have to do it! Same with the President of the US. Unless it's the law of the land I can have differing opinions and can go my own way!


And those exact words right there would have earned you the label of "UnAmerican" only six years ago.

Amazing, isn't it?

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." - G.W. Bush

So, are you with us, or with the terrorists?
0 Replies
 
westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 04:06 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
I guess I'm not seeing the correlation between supporting the President or supporting terrorists? Isn't that reaching a bit far?

I would NEVER respect nor support a terrorist.

It's like saying either you support a child rapist or you are against them.

I still don't understand why it's so bad to say what Bush said. You are with us (the US) and against the bad guys or you support and stand with the bad guys and therefore you are against the US.

DUH...........
westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 04:09 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Okay, I'm better. Since when have conservatives cared about bipartisanship? Oh, that's right... the second you guys lost power.

Why is bipartisanship good?

I voted for Republicans to follow the conservative path. Not to side with the liberals. Why have a two party system if you don't want them to stay on their side of isle?
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 04:38 am
@westernmom,
westernmom;64045 wrote:
I guess I'm not seeing the correlation between supporting the President or supporting terrorists? Isn't that reaching a bit far?

I would NEVER respect nor support a terrorist.

It's like saying either you support a child rapist or you are against them.

I still don't understand why it's so bad to say what Bush said. You are with us (the US) and against the bad guys or you support and stand with the bad guys and therefore you are against the US.

DUH...........


So you've been asleep for seven years?

It's bad to say what Bush said because he caused a rift in the American people, and used that rift in an attempt to silence dissent. The conservative-loved mantra of...

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/america-love-it-or-leave-it.jpg

...became a rallying cry to silence opposing views. Because if you weren't "with us" (i.e. supporting the president every step of the way), you were a terrorist.

It's funny to see a conservative say "Durr, I dunna know what you're talking about!" after shoving it down everyone's throat for nearly a decade.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 04:43 am
@westernmom,
westernmom;64046 wrote:
Why is bipartisanship good?

I voted for Republicans to follow the conservative path. Not to side with the liberals. Why have a two party system if you don't want them to stay on their side of isle?


Bipartisanship is good because it takes the good ideas from all sides and utilizes them.

According to your logic, since we the left won in a near landslide and damn near swept both the house and senate, we should just say "Y'know what... SCREW those Righties! We aren't gonna listen to a thing they say!" Doesn't sound so inviting, being one of those Righties, now does it?

Welcome to the only 21st century an American liberal knows. Hope you like it.
westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 04:47 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Bush's statement didn't cause the rift between the parties or the American people. The rift comes between the people that work hard for what they have and those who want what everyone else has but isn't willing to work for it.

As far as "Love it or Leave it" - what's wrong with that? If all you are going to do it piss and moan about something why be a part of it? Go find something better. Or, vote your party in and make it better according to what you want. You got your way so why are you still harping on Bush? Get over it people!

I have never seen anyone that was "silenced" by conservatives. Give me some examples of this.
westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 04:56 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;64050 wrote:
Bipartisanship is good because it takes the good ideas from all sides and utilizes them.

According to your logic, since we the left won in a near landslide and damn near swept both the house and senate, we should just say "Y'know what... SCREW those Righties! We aren't gonna listen to a thing they say!" Doesn't sound so inviting, being one of those Righties, now does it?

Welcome to the only 21st century an American liberal knows. Hope you like it.


Takes the good from both... but it isn't happening is it? Pelosi pushed her agenda through in the middle of the night without any input from the repubs.

I'm kind of enjoying the news right now.

Yeah, I'm losing my butt in the stock market, and I hate the idea that my grandkids will have pay exorbitant taxes, and that gas will be rationed, and that wolves will become more important than people, and that more kids will be aborted than born, and that we won't be allowed to whisper a prayer in public, and that we will be able to own a gun but won't have ammo for it, and that Gitmo prisoners will be running around bombing the heck out of the US, and that every cabinet member is a crook, and that the mouse will be more important than a business for funding, and that I won't be able to go the doctor of my choosing, that illegals will receive more compensation from the government than retiree's, and on and on

Enjoy your times while we sit back and watch our country become a third world nation.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 04:56 am
@westernmom,
westernmom;64051 wrote:
Bush's statement didn't cause the rift between the parties or the American people. The rift comes between the people that work hard for what they have and those who want what everyone else has but isn't willing to work for it.


That has precisely squat to do with what happened politically after 9/11. After that point, speaking out against the President was attacked sharply via the so-called "mainstream media".

Quote:
As far as "Love it or Leave it" - what's wrong with that? If all you are going to do it piss and moan about something why be a part of it? Go find something better. Or, vote your party in and make it better according to what you want. You got your way so why are you still harping on Bush? Get over it people!


http://www.treehugger.com/barack-obama-for-president.jpg

Done.

Quote:
I have never seen anyone that was "silenced" by conservatives. Give me some examples of this.


Well, if you want successful silence, one needs look no further than scientific reports concerning climate change. However if you want to see examples of how dissent was attacked... well, there's the topic of the thread Smile
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 05:04 am
@westernmom,
westernmom;64053 wrote:
Takes the good from both... but it isn't happening is it? Pelosi pushed her agenda through in the middle of the night without any input from the repubs.


westernmom wrote:
Why is bipartisanship good?


I'm kind of enjoying the news right now.

Quote:
Yeah, I'm losing my butt in the stock market


Bet against the house and the house wins they always say.

Quote:
and I hate the idea that my grandkids will have pay exorbitant taxes


Gotta pay for the wealthy's tax cuts and that pesky Iraq war somehow. Our kids were stuffed with the bill years ago.

Quote:
and that gas will be rationed


:rollinglaugh: Right.

Quote:
and that wolves will become more important than people


Since when?

Quote:
and that more kids will be aborted than born


GODLESS ATHEISTS!!! OOGABOOGA!!!

Quote:
and that we won't be allowed to whisper a prayer in public


See above. OOGABOOGA!!!

Quote:
and that we will be able to own a gun but won't have ammo for it


Chris Rock is funny, isn't he?

Quote:
and that Gitmo prisoners will be running around bombing the heck out of the US


Thanks for torturing them. Makes it impossible to prosecute them.

Quote:
and that every cabinet member is a crook


That ship sailed years ago.

Quote:
and that the mouse will be more important than a business for funding


Again... :rollinglaugh: Right.

Quote:
and that I won't be able to go the doctor of my choosing


Kool aid. You're drinking it. That was debunked almost a solid year ago.

Quote:
that illegals will receive more compensation from the government than retiree's


Well since you guys screwed the economic pooch, they're leaving. Hey, excellent work on solving that problem!

Quote:
Enjoy your times while we sit back and watch our country become a third world nation.


Won't happen by definition.
0 Replies
 
westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 05:34 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Your responses weren't exactly articulate. But I will try to respond somewhat.

Wolves - I guess you don't live in my area so you have no clue what I'm talking about. A rancher cannot control the wolf population but the wolves can destroy his herd.

Health Care - check it out... They are admitting that universal health care is on it's way and part of bill is . I have lived with it and couldn't wait to get back to decent health care. But, most of you Moore-ites think Cuba has a good health care system. The bill says it will compare effectiveness by limiting costs and treatments. So, the government gets to decide where and how you will be treated. Not too hard for most of us to figure out.

Torture? Torture?? Torture??? Name the "torture" so I can understand what you consider torture. My husband thinks torture is when he has to wait for me for more 5 minutes. That must be your idea as well. Do you really think those terrorists would be any different if they hadn't been held in Gitmo? Maybe... They would have been dead by now because they blew themselves up in a bombing somewhere in the US.

With the liberal agenda there will not be drilling in Anwar, off shore, etc. The coal mines will be bankrupt under Obama's plans. I guess we can all drive around in a $40,000 elec car... Oh, but you guys won't let us have hydro power anymore because it hurts the Salmon.

Wealthy tax cuts creates jobs. I work for a wealthy man. Much better job than a government one. But, I guess that's the dream job of every lib - work for the government.

Pesky Iraq war? My grandson will be going over to fight for your freedom soon. Thank heaven for the fight over there and not here.

Climate change is NOT global warming. In fact, are you going to blame me now for the global cooling we are now going into?

Third World - here we come.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 06:28 am
@westernmom,
westernmom;64056 wrote:
Your responses weren't exactly articulate. But I will try to respond somewhat.


They were direct.

Quote:
Wolves - I guess you don't live in my area so you have no clue what I'm talking about. A rancher cannot control the wolf population but the wolves can destroy his herd.


And a rancher cannot hunt to extinction. Protect your herd, don't kill to kill. There's a difference.

Quote:
Health Care - check it out... They are admitting that universal health care is on it's way and part of bill is . I have lived with it and couldn't wait to get back to decent health care. But, most of you Moore-ites think Cuba has a good health care system. The bill says it will compare effectiveness by limiting costs and treatments. So, the government gets to decide where and how you will be treated. Not too hard for most of us to figure out.


"All I'm going to do is help you to lower the premiums on it. You'll still have choice of doctor." - Obama

But you'd prefer to listen to Rush.

Quote:
Torture? Torture?? Torture??? Name the "torture" so I can understand what you consider torture. My husband thinks torture is when he has to wait for me for more 5 minutes. That must be your idea as well. Do you really think those terrorists would be any different if they hadn't been held in Gitmo? Maybe... They would have been dead by now because they blew themselves up in a bombing somewhere in the US.


Rape with instrument. How's that?

I'd also like you to explain how eight prisoners died during interrogation. The questions weren't THAT hard, were they?

Quote:
With the liberal agenda there will not be drilling in Anwar, off shore, etc. The coal mines will be bankrupt under Obama's plans. I guess we can all drive around in a $40,000 elec car... Oh, but you guys won't let us have hydro power anymore because it hurts the Salmon.


Look at you, repeating old debunked myths AGAIN. The "bankrupting coal" one was dealt with a while ago.

Let's ask... how long do you think it would take to see prices go down from increased drilling? Try around ten years. But those oil company profits... they flow immediately.

Quote:
Wealthy tax cuts creates jobs. I work for a wealthy man. Much better job than a government one. But, I guess that's the dream job of every lib - work for the government.


No tax cut has EVER created a job. If that were true, we wouldn't be staring at near eight percent unemployment... everyone would have a job.

Quote:
Pesky Iraq war? My grandson will be going over to fight for your freedom soon. Thank heaven for the fight over there and not here.


Yeah, damn Saddam for flying planes into our buildings!

Little hint: There were no terrorists in Iraq until we destabilized the entire region.

Quote:
Climate change is NOT global warming. In fact, are you going to blame me now for the global cooling we are now going into?


Let's see some scientific evidence, please.

Quote:
Third World - here we come.


:rollinglaugh: Monger that fear!
0 Replies
 
westernmom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 07:56 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
To counter some of your points:

President Barack Obama’s Environmental Protection Agency pledged to regulate global warming pollution from coal-fired power plants today, granting a petition filed by the Sierra Club and other environmental organizations. The decision casts an almost palpable shadow of doubt over the fate of roughly 100 proposed coal plants awaiting permits throughout the United States and should offer a brief respite in the ongoing fight against continued reliance on the dirty fossil fuel.


Antarctic Sea Ice for January Up! NSIDC

This is an increase of 34.8% for ice extent and 22% for ice concentration over 1997. In addition 2009 ice extent was up 23% over 1980 (the first full year of satellite measurements)!

Gitmo deaths can be attributed to suicide and riots caused by inmates. No pity from me. They act like pigs and should be treated as such. Would you be willing to take one into your home and rehab him?

It's the wolves that just kill to kill. You tell me how a rancher can tell which wolf is going to kill one of his herd and then he can protect from it. Dumb city attitudes...

Yep - tax cuts do create jobs. Here at our company we were able to create jobs with the cuts and will have to cut the employee's if taxes go up!
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2009 09:10 pm
@westernmom,
westernmom;64083 wrote:
To counter some of your points:

President Barack Obama’s Environmental Protection Agency pledged to regulate global warming pollution from coal-fired power plants today, granting a petition filed by the Sierra Club and other environmental organizations. The decision casts an almost palpable shadow of doubt over the fate of roughly 100 proposed coal plants awaiting permits throughout the United States and should offer a brief respite in the ongoing fight against continued reliance on the dirty fossil fuel.


Odd seeing that there's a chunk of stimulus cash going towards the coal industry.


Quote:
Antarctic Sea Ice for January Up! NSIDC

This is an increase of 34.8% for ice extent and 22% for ice concentration over 1997. In addition 2009 ice extent was up 23% over 1980 (the first full year of satellite measurements)!


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14724

Sea ice up despite warming.

And if you look at the northern side of the rock, the ice is going down.

You don't know how to interpret data, do you?

Quote:
Gitmo deaths can be attributed to suicide and riots caused by inmates. No pity from me. They act like pigs and should be treated as such.


Perhaps you'd like to point out such riots. The eight I pointed out died during interrogation. Again I ask, how did these people end up dying during interrogation? This was NOT during any sort of riot, this was not due to suicide. Interrogators brought them into a room, hours later they come out corpses.

How?

Quote:
Would you be willing to take one into your home and rehab him?


Since when has this been done with any jail system? Since when has this been done with any non-American citizens?

Quote:
It's the wolves that just kill to kill. You tell me how a rancher can tell which wolf is going to kill one of his herd and then he can protect from it. Dumb city attitudes...


Wolves kill to feed. They don't understand the concept of "sport killing". Everything a wolf does is for survival. Otherwise they'd be killing each other.

Ignorant country attitudes.

Quote:
Yep - tax cuts do create jobs. Here at our company we were able to create jobs with the cuts and will have to cut the employee's if taxes go up!


Then name one specific job created by a tax cut. Numbers and data would be nice, too. Exactly what cut created what job?
0 Replies
 
gusto
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 12:46 pm
@westernmom,
westernmom;64045 wrote:
I guess I'm not seeing the correlation between supporting the President or supporting terrorists? Isn't that reaching a bit far?

I would NEVER respect nor support a terrorist.

It's like saying either you support a child rapist or you are against them.

I still don't understand why it's so bad to say what Bush said. You are with us (the US) and against the bad guys or you support and stand with the bad guys and therefore you are against the US.

DUH...........


Duh! is right. If you don't support torture, You support the terrorists. If you don't support taking away American's constitutional rights,if you don't support lying to the people in order to go to war for who knows what reasons,If you don't support making enemies of most of your allies, If you don't support war crimes, well then you must be a terrorist yourself and maybe we will grab you off the street and send you to someplace where they are not as nice as us and then you will be sorry you didn't go with the program. DUH indeed.
0 Replies
 
 

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