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America has Decided.

 
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 06:37 am
@g-man,
g-man;63219 wrote:
Laissez-faire is not a policy of anarchy.
When executives of corporations break law, they should be prosecuted.
When corporations fail, bankruptsy is the path to repair. Not bailouts that will not work. Re-organization. It works.


I'm talking about having no regulations on corps which historically has lead to disaster. Regulations that ensure the health of citizens, regulations that fight monopolies, regulations that protect the workers rights. These are all important. To ignore them always leads to problems.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 07:19 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63235 wrote:
I'm talking about having no regulations on corps which historically has lead to disaster. Regulations that ensure the health of citizens, regulations that fight monopolies, regulations that protect the workers rights. These are all important. To ignore them always leads to problems.


Hence... now.
0 Replies
 
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:42 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63235 wrote:

1. I'm talking about having no regulations on corps which historically has lead to disaster.
2. Regulations that ensure the health of citizens,
3. regulations that fight monopolies,
4. regulations that protect the workers rights. These are all important. To ignore them always leads to problems.


1. Such as? Name the "disaster" you're referring to please...?
2. Such as? When developing a business, becoming the biggest and the best is the goal. No?
3. I'm not stating that this is wrong, but explain why. The effort to become all things to all people in your arena of expertise seems an admirable goal. If you meet this criteria and become a monopoly in that process I see nothing wrong with that. Or?
4. Workers rights? What does that mean? Workers have the right to work if they are an asset to their employer. Workers have the right to give to their employer a day's work. Being worthy of the paycheck that they have earned.
What else could they have the right to? they have taken no risk to create the position they hold. They have applied for and been granted the position they asked for and hold that position based on their ability to perform the duties to perform that task. What rights?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 01:34 am
@g-man,
g-man;63465 wrote:
1. Such as? Name the "disaster" you're referring to please...?


How about the great ******* depression, is that a good enough example for you?

Quote:
2. Such as? When developing a business, becoming the biggest and the best is the goal. No?

Not when it requires them to subvert the health and well being of it's workers and customers.

Quote:
3. I'm not stating that this is wrong, but explain why. The effort to become all things to all people in your arena of expertise seems an admirable goal. If you meet this criteria and become a monopoly in that process I see nothing wrong with that. Or?


Monopolies lead to price manipulation, and if the service they offer is essential then customers are forced to pay whatever cost it is, even at the risk of their own livelihood.


Quote:
4. Workers rights? What does that mean? Workers have the right to work if they are an asset to their employer. Workers have the right to give to their employer a day's work. Being worthy of the paycheck that they have earned.
What else could they have the right to? they have taken no risk to create the position they hold. They have applied for and been granted the position they asked for and hold that position based on their ability to perform the duties to perform that task. What rights?


It doesn't appear you know very much about the great depression. Worker rights violations occurred frequently during the "laissez faire" economics of the American past.

Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire

Companies would expose workers to unnecessarily dangerous or hazardous conditions in order to save money for the company. Some companies would force workers to work for so long and with little or no breaks to where it became detrimental to their health. Wages could be so low it was essentially slavery, and could sometimes cause workers to owe more money than when they started, for example some orchards would pay workers 5 cents an hour but charge the workers 10 dollars for a bag and work cloths. Child labor was rampant during laissez faire times, and so were sweatshop-like conditions.

Also it wasn't uncommon for employers to reject employment to those of different races, creeds, nationality etc.. and because they could always hire new people threatening to quit wouldn't change anything.
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 02:53 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63477 wrote:

1. How about the great ***ing depression, is that a good enough example for you?
2. Not when it requires them to subvert the health and well being of it's workers and customers.

3. Monopolies lead to price manipulation, and if the service they offer is essential then customers are forced to pay whatever cost it is, even at the risk of their own livelihood.

4. It doesn't appear you know very much about the great depression. Worker rights violations occurred frequently during the "laissez faire" economics of the American past.

Also it wasn't uncommon for employers to reject employment to those of different races, creeds, nationality etc.. and because they could always hire new people threatening to quit wouldn't change anything.


1. The great depression was brought on by FDR. Not solved.
The only solution for the great depression was "war". It killed millions but saved millions. FDR was nothing more than a western Joseph Stalin. Minus of course the killing of his own staff. He set aside the constitution for the sake of absolute power. War made that possible and bought him a lot of time.
Regulation does not effect "corporations". It bogs them down. But, they are the only ones that can afford the effect that it produces.
The ones truly hurt by it are up and coming companies. Small business. The true backbone of any nation. Hatred for "corporations" is such a comical thing. Admirable, but stupid as hell.
2. Name a business that ever started out with the goal of adversely effecting workers or customers health and well being............?
3. Can't argue that one. But I still don't see that "regulation" avoids the result of a company being so good at their job that competition fades away.
Making exceptions for less than excellence leads to poor service and products.
4. I have no need to know about the great depression nor the trials and tribulations of the workers of that era.
I believe in treating people with respect. I do not tolerate disrespect from employers to employees. Nor do I tolerate the reverse. I acknowledge the right of an employer to fire whom they wish for whatever reason they wish, so long as those reasons are work related.
I believe employees have a duty to prove on a daily basis their worth to a company that they approached and asked for a job.
Were that employee blessed with intelligence, talent, time management skills, they would likely be the owner of their own company and faced with the decisions of "who" is the best qualified to make this company profitable.
Any other idea of who owes who a living, just because they exist is simply socialist bullshit.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:33 am
@g-man,
g-man;63569 wrote:
1. The great depression was brought on by FDR. Not solved.
The only solution for the great depression was "war". It killed millions but saved millions. FDR was nothing more than a western Joseph Stalin. Minus of course the killing of his own staff. He set aside the constitution for the sake of absolute power. War made that possible and bought him a lot of time.
Regulation does not effect "corporations". It bogs them down. But, they are the only ones that can afford the effect that it produces.
The ones truly hurt by it are up and coming companies. Small business. The true backbone of any nation. Hatred for "corporations" is such a comical thing. Admirable, but stupid as hell.


Corporations are like other entities, they need rights as well as rules. If left to their own we must only hope that the desire for profit doesn't conflict with the health of the community.


Quote:
2. Name a business that ever started out with the goal of adversely effecting workers or customers health and well being............?


All businesses start out with the goal of making money, adversely affecting workers and/or customers is sometimes a side-affect of that goal.


Quote:
3. Can't argue that one. But I still don't see that "regulation" avoids the result of a company being so good at their job that competition fades away.
Making exceptions for less than excellence leads to poor service and products.


because it is through the power of government intervention that we are able to break up monopolies.


Quote:
4. I have no need to know about the great depression nor the trials and tribulations of the workers of that era.


History is a precious thing, if we do not learn from it, we are doomed to repeat it.


Quote:
I believe in treating people with respect. I do not tolerate disrespect from employers to employees. Nor do I tolerate the reverse. I acknowledge the right of an employer to fire whom they wish for whatever reason they wish, so long as those reasons are work related.
I believe employees have a duty to prove on a daily basis their worth to a company that they approached and asked for a job.
Were that employee blessed with intelligence, talent, time management skills, they would likely be the owner of their own company and faced with the decisions of "who" is the best qualified to make this company profitable.
Any other idea of who owes who a living, just because they exist is simply socialist bullshit.


Basic human rights is "socialist bullshit"?
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 09:14 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63579 wrote:
Corporations are like other entities, they need rights as well as rules. If left to their own we must only hope that the desire for profit doesn't conflict with the health of the community.


The ultimate expression of business without government regulation is the mafia.

Quote:
Basic human rights is "socialist bull****"?


Three words that are not synonyms: Communism, Socialism, Obama. People that attempt to connect them know nothing of either. They only repeat what Rush and Coulter say, damn near verbatim.

Of course we can understand why... gotta rile up that base that's been fighting the dirty Reds for as long as they could duck and cover under a wooden desk.

Of course if anything could demonstrate their intelligence, it's that they honestly believed that "duck and cover" would protect them from a nuclear attack.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 02:44 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63590 wrote:


Three words that are not synonyms: Communism, Socialism, Obama. People that attempt to connect them know nothing of either. They only repeat what Rush and Coulter say, damn near verbatim.

Of course we can understand why... gotta rile up that base that's been fighting the dirty Reds for as long as they could duck and cover under a wooden desk.

Of course if anything could demonstrate their intelligence, it's that they honestly believed that "duck and cover" would protect them from a nuclear attack.


They love the association fallacy.

"If communism is wrong and socialism is like communism therefore socialism is wrong and socialism enforces worker's rights therefore worker's rights are wrong......" :thumbdown:

Association fallacy: Information from Answers.com
0 Replies
 
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2009 05:20 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63228 wrote:

1. If you were unemployed and unable to find work today, would you be pressing that button?

2. Ah, another conservative pandering memes he doesn't know the definition of. How about we eliminate all socialism in this country. There goes the police force, emergency services, post office, DOT, *SOCIAL* Security, unemployment, public roads, etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and that socialist military thing. That really has to go, right?

3. Well how about we take into consideration the Republican control of the house, senate, white house and SCOTUS for the past six? You know, the ones that didn't bother to read that pesky PATRIOT act. The ones who provided no oversight whatsoever. The very same ones who tried to haggle to get rid of the filibuster.
Naah, that makes you look bad.

4. As for my life in the last eight years? Let's start with 4 bucks a gallon. Mix in a couple of airplanes and buildings (you know he was warned by Clinton, right?), two wars that have cost all of us well over a trillion large, the COMPLETE lack of any sort of energy policy, a lack of any judicial or financial oversight and you get a decent mix of fail.

5. A bit closer to home... we had this governor... he ran on the idea that he could get rid of the personal property tax. The rich loved this idea because they didn't have to pay taxes on their mansions and fleets of limos. It was pandered to the middle class as "NO CAR TAX", and it worked. Problem was the state couldn't afford it and the budget nosedived. I was a state employee at the time... lost my job along with about 75% of the employees in my field because the state simply couldn't afford to cut us paychecks.

6. Neat little lesson in what cutting taxes can do. Said governor was given the boot the next election cycle. Funny thing is the "NO CAR TAX" plan never worked. People still pay PP taxes. At least the middle class does.

Whereas that isn't a Boosh screwup, it does show you what the Republican mentality buys you.


1. I will never be unemployed. So, I can't answer that. I'll never be unemployed because if I can't find a job, I'll make one. Just like every body with moving blood in it has the ability to do.

2. Oh ****, how did the world ever turn without those social services?
That military thing and roads are the "only" reason a government should exist.

3. Name one way the patriot act caused you or an acquaintance a problem.
I have no problem with it.

4. Do you realize how much of that 4 bucks a gallon was tax? And so what if gas hit 4 bucks? Surely just a step in the right direction for ecomaniacs. less traffic and all.
You think Clintoon warned Bush about Obama? I mean Osama? Clintoon let him escape three times. Oh wait, you mean Clintoon knew they were gonna hijack the planes and crash the WTC?
2 wars, and no attacks on American soil. Hmmm.
Oversight, you mean more government? GOOD.
By the way. Since when is government qualified to oversee anything? They can't even control their own.
5. If you were or are a government employee, expect no sympathy from me.
I wish more would lose their jobs. Find a job and help a private entity be all it can be. Or start your own.
6. Amazing that you think "taxes" are the answer to anything. That is sick thinking. Taxes are nothing more than one group of people stealing from a group of people who actually work to produce to the things that make life in the civilized world possible. Government and it's workers are the leeches that drag the good people down.
g-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2009 07:03 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
No response. No time? Too busy taking advantage of capitalism while it last?
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 09:47 am
@g-man,
g-man;63670 wrote:
Name one way the patriot act caused you or an acquaintance a problem.
I have no problem with it.



Name a single terrorist that has been caught as a result of the patriot act.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:14 pm
@g-man,
g-man;63670 wrote:
1. I will never be unemployed. So, I can't answer that. I'll never be unemployed because if I can't find a job, I'll make one. Just like every body with moving blood in it has the ability to do.


Never say never. Gets you into more trouble than anything else.

Quote:
2. Oh ****, how did the world ever turn without those social services?
That military thing and roads are the "only" reason a government should exist.


Why? Because those are the only things you care about?

Quote:
3. Name one way the patriot act caused you or an acquaintance a problem.
I have no problem with it.


The fact that I can be monitored without a warrant being filed is the problem.

Quote:
4. Do you realize how much of that 4 bucks a gallon was tax? And so what if gas hit 4 bucks? Surely just a step in the right direction for ecomaniacs. less traffic and all.


Do you realize how much of that 4 bucks a gallon was wrapped up in these things called "futures" and people called "speculators"?

When gas got that expensive, prices of EVERYTHING went up. The milk and eggs at the grocery store and the steel we use to build parts for machines that package milk and eggs which... made the milk and eggs go up a bit. Lather, rinse, repeat, you get the idea. I hope.

Quote:
You think Clintoon warned Bush about Obama? I mean Osama? Clintoon let him escape three times. Oh wait, you mean Clintoon knew they were gonna hijack the planes and crash the WTC?


No war for Monica. Remember that?

Quote:
2 wars, and no attacks on American soil. Hmmm.


At what price? How many lives constitutes "too expensive"?

Quote:
Oversight, you mean more government? GOOD.


Been keeping up with Marco Polo's testimony? It's a neat thing to check out in your spare time.

Quote:
By the way. Since when is government qualified to oversee anything? They can't even control their own.


Like roads and military? Those things you said a government should oversee?

Quote:
5. If you were or are a government employee, expect no sympathy from me.


Really? Used any medication recently? Any surgeries or medical treatments?

I worked at a university. Specifically the division that handled the research proposals and grants for the many, many doctors we employed. These included studies and trials for many of the medications and surgery procedures in use today. These doctors are government employees and their research is funded by the government. All to make your life better.

Quote:
I wish more would lose their jobs. Find a job and help a private entity be all it can be. Or start your own.


Odd. I thought that the majority of jobs cut when this started were... private entities.

Wow. Just... wow.

Quote:
6. Amazing that you think "taxes" are the answer to anything. That is sick thinking. Taxes are nothing more than one group of people stealing from a group of people who actually work to produce to the things that make life in the civilized world possible. Government and it's workers are the leeches that drag the good people down.


Taxes are required to make the government work. Things like the military, police force and fire/rescue. They need money to run... it doesn't come out of thin air. Do you suggest we pay a private company to put out a blaze downtown? Do you think we should pay a private company to police the streets? Some things are best left for government to handle. There are reasons it was created in the first place.
0 Replies
 
 

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