the irony of health care reform

We have a National Health in this country and I have to say I am pretty damn proud of it.

Any forward thinking society which wants to grow and have a moral social structure should aspire to have free health care for everyone.
It should be a minimum requirement.

Well, right now Obama seems to be trying to get a national healthcare system up, but I don't think he suspected how truly difficult it would be. The republicans are fighting it tooth and nail despite the fact that most Americans want free health care.

Republicans are irrelevant to the issue.

Dumocrats have the vote to make it happen.

They are fighting among themselves over who controls the purse strings of the monster they are creating.

At the end of each section of the 1000 page bill is where the pork is installed and "that" is the stumbling block for the vote. The health care bill written by aides has never been read by a Democrat.

Please, "free" health care?

Obamatrons say there are 47 million people not covered at present.
Are the doctors going to get a day off?

Doctors make less money than senators and congressmen. They work a lot more and deal with real issues.
Free, hmmmph

Until they find out you don't have insurance.

health care is ridiculously over-priced, not everybody has the means to afford it.

That isn't always an option. Why discriminate against the poor?

What does this have to do with anything? This is possible regardless of how it is paid for.

Actually I said UNIVERSAL, so-called because everybody can get it.

We have a National Health in this country and I have to say I am pretty damn proud of it.

Any forward thinking society which wants to grow and have a moral social structure should aspire to have free health care for everyone.
It should be a minimum requirement.

So you think doctors should just offer their multi year college educations for free? hahaha, Hey, how about free cars, and houses, aw *** it..EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You miss the point.

Those that can afford Private healthcare will pay it. My family and I get it as part of my Job for free (one of my benefits).

For me this issue is more to do with the moral fabric and social structure of society as opposed to money, with the have's and the have nots.

Whether you agree with it or not, countless hundreds of thousands of people were treated and cured because our society took reponsibilty for it's population and tried to care for them. There is no rich and poor didvide on the NHS, the care is good (for the most part) and succesful. Sure there are things wrong with it which I don't agree with, but hey you can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the poeple some of the time.

And they STILL treat you, amazing huh? Sorry they get kicked out after they get fixed up, and don't get to move into the hospital

Job, insurance, job, insurance, job insurance. I hate to tell you this, but anyone that has a job, and doesn't have insurance has CHOSEN to not spend their money on THEIR OWN healthcare, so it is not MY job to take care of them. Anyone with even a minimum wage job can afford at least a very basic policy.

Not discriminating against anyone, even rich ***ers with no insurance can pound sand if they think I am going to pick up their tab.

What does it have to do with it? If you can't figure that out, you aren't qualified to debate universal healthcare. Healthcare cost, and insurance are so damn expensive BECAUSE of the people that don't want to pay, and because of lawsuits, and fraud.

Doctors are offering their professional service that they paid to learn, how do you figure it's the governments place to regulate their profession?

They already can. You just have to get a ***ing job, and contribute to society instead of leeching off of it.

It's pretty ***ed up that people think that some people should just sit around, and complain about how society should just give them **** without having to contribute to society themselves. *** that. Take away all the incintive to succeed and we will be cavemen agian in short order because nobody will do ****.

This is not true. You cannot even get procedures done if you don't have insurance.

Sorry, you really have no idea what you're talking about. I live in Michigan where the economy has taken the most damage. What do you think happened in Michigan after GM and Ford started closing their plants. Mind you the auto industry has been the driving force of the michigan economy for years. Everybody lost their jobs that's what happened and now there is a surplus of workers and not enough jobs to go around, which is why Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates in the whole ***ing country. And those who do still have jobs are laid off.

It's one thing for you to say it's easy to get a job and it's another to actually get one. The unemployment rate here is twice that of where you live. So you have no place to talk.

But they don't, rich people can afford their own health insurance. The poor cannot, why discriminate against the poor?

No, healthcare is expensive because it's a business. They're not trying to help people their trying to make a profit. If we had a national system it would save a lot of paperwork and a lot of tests, this would save money.

The same way I figure it's the governments job to regulate a teacher's profession.

The vast majority of the uninsured are children.

You seem to think every place has the same job opportunities as where you live, this is false.

Bull****. I've seen people with no insurance get medical care...in a hostipal. When my brother was in for a broken ankle, another guy, an "immigratant worker" was there for the exact same thing from a "job site", got the same treatment, and even though it cost my brother over $400 for the trip, it didn't cost the other guy a dime. I have been to the hospital without insurance and got treatment a couple times.

I know exactly wht I'm talking about because I've lived it. Can't find a job where you live, than move, but it's HIGHLY unlikely that there's NO jobs anywhere, maybe they don't want to do the jobs that are available,

tough****, that's not my fault, or my problem,

and I shouldn't have to pay for it. You know why illegals pour into our country by the ***ing metric ton? Because there's *** loads of jobs here.

You don't know **** about me, or where I live.

I'm not even going to dignify that BS.

Nope, there's plans out there that people can afford, even poor people. I see so many "poor" people with new cars sitting on 20's, or "poor" people carrying 60" plasmas into their house, my personal favorite are the "poor" people that drive up to the social security office, or unemployment in a ***ing Escalade.

I've lived in poverty, and poor neighborhoods for most of my life, and the one thing I found is that the vast majority of them make choices that put them where they are, so no, I don't have any general sympathy for anyone just because they are "poor".

There IS opportunity in this country, LOTS of it, it isn't mine, nor anyone elses fault that people choose not to take it.

It's not even close to the samething, and speaking of education, thanks for making my argument for me, since the government has gotten involved with our education system it has gone to complete and utter ****,

along with just about EVERY single other agency, or area of society they try to "fix",

and you think they are going to be able to handle healthcare? Holy ****, that's a knee slapper.

Than THEIR ***ing PARENTS should insure them, not the rest of America. Just because some dip****s that can't even fed themselves squeeze out a few kids to bump up their ***ing welfare check doesn't mean I have to pay for their dumbasses.

What's false is that there's no work to be had. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, that wants to make it in this country can. People get stuck in the cycle of dependency that the government creates, and then can't get out, the ABSOLUTE last thing we need in this country is MORE goverment dependence.

Yes the entire unemployed population of michigan is going to move, that's a great idea! :ban:

You obviously have no appreciation of the complexity of the issue at hand.

No one said it was.

It's no wonder the rest of society isn't as compassionate as you.

In texas maybe.

According to your account you live in texas

Because you can't argue with reality.

Yes, you should judge all of them according to the actions of some because those going to the unemployment office in escalades are clearly the majority of them.

/sarcasm

The vast majority are minorities and the disabled. The majority of one's wealth is a direct result of what your family had, if you are born into poverty chances are that you aren't going to escape it. Those who cannot get jobs cannot get jobs for a reason. lack of college education or a disability.

But just because there are some jerks out there doesn't mean we should deny aid to those that really need it.

Not here.

Have you any idea how long the government has been "involved in education?

Yeah the post office is really in the ****ter. For a quarter you can send some crap you wrote halfway across the nation.

Oh and don't even get me started on NASA, they obviously have no idea what they're doing....lol

Oh, what a load of pessimistic bull. You just don't like authority.

Some of us realize that the government is necessary

And yet it is the children who suffer from your arrogance.

And this is what it really comes down to isn't it? Adherence to your political ideology.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that healthcare can cover more people more cheaply in a single payer system, but that's not what you care about you care about money and you care about the adherence to your laissez faire ideology.

Sorry human compassion trumps that every time. People are more important than money.

There's "no" jobs there right? So what are they going to do? Sit around and wait for a government handout, or make it on their own?

I understand it perfectly. I do what I had to do to make sure my family had food, and a home, and I didn't wait for government to hand it to me. It's called fending for yourself, if more people tried it this nation might grow it's back bone back.

Compassion? I don't give a **** about compassion. If someone needs help, and I can help them I do, but it isn't the governments place to force me, or anyone else to, then its no longer compassion, or charity.

There's jobs everywhere. Get a ***ing lawmower and go house to house if you have to. IF you look for it, there's work.

Yea, and? There's 49 other states if they can't find lawns to mow, floors to mop, burgers to flip, or whatever someone needs to do to take care of themselves until something better comes along instead of waiting for government assistance.

Because I don't argue with bleeding heart stupidity.

Nope, not the majority, but too many people having been sponging off the system, that's why your bleeding heart BS isn't working. It has created a hole that sucks people into easy money insetad of working hard.

That is the biggest load of bull**** ever. That crutch that minorities have been using is some weak bull****. "Oh the white man keeps us down", *** that. Just another sorry excuse to sit around and feel sorry for ones self instead of working hard to better their lives, of whiach there are MANY success stories of people that came from absolutely nothing to acheive great things in life.

Than you sort them out. The bad apple spoils the bunch, and yes, the millions that can, but don't are what's making your system fail.

Not anywhere where you sit around crying about it, instead of getting out and doing.

Too long, and since they have it's decline has been exponential.

Stop grasping at straws trying to pretend that the social programs work because NASA does.

Where did I say ti isn't nescessary? Oh, no where, that's right. It does however not belong in every aspect of our lives, and the last thing that needs it's inefficient bureaucracy is hte healthcare of this nation.

I've got my own child to worry about, and if other parents worried enough about their own ***ing kids, they make damn sure they could get to a doctor if they need to without "poor me" excuses.

Aint got **** to do with politics, it has everything to do with people taking care of themselves, and do what they need to do to survive instead of waiting for a handout.

HAHAHA yea, that's why every other democratic social experiment is a complete and utter failure.

Other people aren't more important to me than my ability to provide for my family, sorry. I go without so that I can afford to make sure they are taken care of, so pardon me if I don't give a *** if some welfare douchebag that would rather plunk his ass in front of his TV and watch UFC all weekend instead of going to get a job's family is hungry, or can't afford medical care, because I don't.

Anyway, this is just stupid, no wonder I haven't logged in here in so long. Unsubscribing and not wasting anymore time on this BS.