the irony of health care reform

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Obama plan hits blue states hardest - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

"In mounting an aggressive push toward universal health care, President Barack Obama is exposing one of the central ironies of offering insurance to all: The states most likely to profit are the ones that voted against him last November and whose congressional leaders are least likely to support it.

Red states across the South, which now offer limited benefits to low-income residents, stand to receive billions of dollars to cover large populations of uninsured citizens. Blue states in the North and Midwest, which are wealthier and already offer insurance to many, are likely to take a financial hit."
....

?If you look at the people he?s raising taxes on and whose deductions he?s limiting, those are the people who live in Democratic states,? Rueben said. ?He?s taxing his base.?

But Obama?s allies harbor hopes that if health care reform is a success and provides coverage to millions of previously uninsured people in the South, it could represent the kind of game-changing outcome that helps cement a permanent Democratic majority, turning red states blue.

?A system of health care that promises basic coverage to everyone could be close to Social Security in terms of its transformative nature,? one Democratic official said. ?It will be good for the country, and it may well have political benefits.?

A former health policy adviser to President Bill Clinton, Chris Jennings, said he can foresee the debate turning to a blunt discussion of the benefits and costs for each state.

?It?s very easy to debate how much is my state getting compared to another. That?s a piece of the debate people can really get their hands around,? Jennings said. ?It frequently has more impact on votes than traditional policy arguments.?....

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@NotHereForLong,

Democrats are going to end up paying for the health care of Rush Limbaugh's fans and the religious right's followers. LOL

1 Reply

@NotHereForLong,

NotHereForLong;64600 wrote:

Democrats are going to end up paying for the health care of Rush Limbaugh's fans and the religious right's followers. LOL

That doesn't bother me. I'm a firm believer that everyone should have affordable health coverage. You shouldn't have to go into crushing debt to keep yourself alive.

1 Reply

@Sabz5150,

Sabz5150;64607 wrote:

That doesn't bother me. I'm a firm believer that everyone should have affordable health coverage. You shouldn't have to go into crushing debt to keep yourself alive.

You're not gonna keep yourself alive. You're gonna die.
The government's not gonna keep you alive.
There's no such thing as free.
Canadians run to America for real medical help. Especially when the reaper is knocking on their door. They don't like waiting in line for weeks and months.
The lines are full of welfare hypochondriacs.

Help me out, besides military or road service, what has government produced that you'd buy? Which model car or appliance?

3 Replies

@g-man,

g-man;64802 wrote:

You're not gonna keep yourself alive. You're gonna die.
The government's not gonna keep you alive.
There's no such thing as free.
Canadians run to America for real medical help. Especially when the reaper is knocking on their door. They don't like waiting in line for weeks and months.
The lines are full of welfare hypochondriacs.

Help me out, besides military or road service, what has government produced that you'd buy? Which model car or appliance?

"Canadians run to America for real medical help" The vast majority don't !

Americans flock to mexico and canada to get cheaper drugs for health reasons !

1 Reply

@scooby-doo cv,

scooby-doo;64809 wrote:

"Canadians run to America for real medical help" The vast majority don't !

Americans flock to mexico and canada to get cheaper drugs for health reasons !

Both of your statements are true.
One must first be able to afford to go to the U.S.. Also have the time.

I know that we buy medicines from Canada. I must admit that I don't know why. I don't use them yet. I know they are cheaper but again I don't know why. I have not heard the same about Mexico.

0 Replies

@g-man,

g-man;64802 wrote:

You're not gonna keep yourself alive. You're gonna die.

Brilliant deduction. You miss the point.

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The government's not gonna keep you alive.

Again, you miss the point.

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There's no such thing as free.

Of course not, but there is such a thing as community.

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Canadians run to America for real medical help. Especially when the reaper is knocking on their door. They don't like waiting in line for weeks and months.
The lines are full of welfare hypochondriacs.

And we run to them for cheap pills.

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Help me out, besides military or road service, what has government produced that you'd buy? Which model car or appliance?

Why not roads and military? Why are you trying to put limits on my argument? Military? That takes out GPS and the internet, both initially developed for military use. Both things I purchase. Both things produced by the government... just commercialized by private companies. Roads are nice, too... makes driving that car a whole lot easier. Ever done highway speeds on gravel? It's AWESOME.

1 Reply

@g-man,

g-man;64802 wrote:

You're not gonna keep yourself alive. You're gonna die.
The government's not gonna keep you alive.
There's no such thing as free.
Canadians run to America for real medical help. Especially when the reaper is knocking on their door. They don't like waiting in line for weeks and months.
The lines are full of welfare hypochondriacs.

Help me out, besides military or road service, what has government produced that you'd buy? Which model car or appliance?

The thing about using Canada as an example is that it has one of the worst universal health care systems and yet it is still comparable to ours. Ask a Canadian if they would want to go back to privatized healthcare. The UK has one of the most successful health care systems in the world and they are on average much more happy with their system than we are with ours. Something must be done the current system clearly isn't working.

1 Reply

@Sabz5150,

Sabz5150;64854 wrote:

1. Brilliant deduction. You miss the point.
Again, you miss the point.

2. Of course not, but there is such a thing as community.

3. And we run to them for cheap pills.

4. Why not roads and military? Why are you trying to put limits on my argument? Military? That takes out GPS and the internet, both initially developed for military use. Both things I purchase. Both things produced by the government... just commercialized by private companies. Roads are nice, too... makes driving that car a whole lot easier. Ever done highway speeds on gravel? It's AWESOME.

1. The brilliance is yours of course. I got your points.
But, socialist arguments are always based on lies. Either attempting to paint their opposition as uncaring or offer the masses an unrealistic hope. Leaving out the realities of the overbearing cost, and the inefficiency of anything the government touches.

2. See what I mean?

3. I understand that they are cheap. But why?

4. You misunderstood my point. Military and road service are specifically the only use I have for government. Achievements in technology are the results of private business. Often at the behest of government. But, unmistakably private.

2 Replies

@g-man,

g-man;64984 wrote:

You misunderstood my point. Military and road service are specifically the only use I have for government. Achievements in technology are the results of private business. Often at the behest of government. But, unmistakably private.

The problem is if it is something necessary like say surgery a lot of people can't afford it. If you still want the BEST you can still go to a private clinic if you have the cash.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;64989 wrote:

The problem is if it is something necessary like say surgery a lot of people can't afford it. If you still want the BEST you can still go to a private clinic if you have the cash.

I am beginning to fold a bit. I do not oppose people being helped through medical needs. I only oppose the waste, the inefficiency, the absurd cost. Everything that government has to offer.
Government "is already" the reason medical care is unaffordable. The last thing needed is more involvement from them.

1 Reply

@g-man,

g-man;65017 wrote:

I am beginning to fold a bit. I do not oppose people being helped through medical needs. I only oppose the waste, the inefficiency, the absurd cost. Everything that government has to offer.
Government "is already" the reason medical care is unaffordable. The last thing needed is more involvement from them.

With a centralized database this should increase efficiency, no need for duplicate paperwork any and all hospitals would have your medical history and they can treat you faster without needing to be cleared by your insurance company. The problem with insurance companies is they have monetary motivation to deny you coverage so they find absurd reasons and legal loopholes so that they don't have to pay you.

I believe medical care should be along the same lines as public education, police, and fire.

0 Replies

@g-man,

g-man;64984 wrote:

1. The brilliance is yours of course. I got your points.
But, socialist arguments are always based on lies. Either attempting to paint their opposition as uncaring or offer the masses an unrealistic hope. Leaving out the realities of the overbearing cost, and the inefficiency of anything the government touches.

As are conservative arguments.

Quote:

2. See what I mean?

What do you live in?

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3. I understand that they are cheap. But why?

Because the PharmaCo's don't have their claw firmly around the collective balls of Canada's government. Remember, it's not that they don't want you doing drugs... its that they want you doing their drugs.

Quote:

4. You misunderstood my point. Military and road service are specifically the only use I have for government. Achievements in technology are the results of private business. Often at the behest of government. But, unmistakably private.

And without government help (read: funding), such advancements would have never gotten off the ground. Who do you think doled out the money for the research, man-hours and materials needed to put a handful of people on the moon? No private enterprise would EVER consider something that expensive. Much of the medical and scientific research, although performed by private enterprise, are funded by the government. Our tax money. I've had hundreds of millions of dollars worth of federal research grants pass through my hands, I see what Sam does with our cash... things like fruit fly research in Paris, France.

GPS is pointed out for a similar reason... where's the profit to be made by launching a universal and open (these are key words) satellite system? Imagine if Sirius was able to hop a ride on XM's satellites a year or so ago... wouldn't have happened. Dem's MY satellites!

Remember, your tax dollars go to managing those GPS sats which I use quite often, as do millions of others. *GASP* ZOMG SOCIALIZM REDISTRUBITIN MAH WEALTH!!!!!

Government is there to do what private enterprise will not do because it is not profitable and what the individual citizen cannot do because it is too large of an endeavor.

0 Replies

@NotHereForLong,

"I understand that they are cheap. But why?"

In most countries, the government puts price controls on prescription drugs. In the US, it doesn't. And this has resulted in prescription drugs being much more expensive in the US than in other countries. In northern states, many senior citizens travel to Canada to buy prescription drugs. And in the southwest, many of them take trips to Mexico for the same reason. Some of the governors of my state (New Hampshire) have endorsed and encouraged the practice, even though it's illegal. Opponents of price controls claim that if we had them, drug companies would have less money for research and development of new drugs. Proponents argue that drug companies are incredibly profitable and spend more money on advertising than research. The issue is mostly ignored by politicians.

1 Reply

@NotHereForLong,

So look what we'll get from healthcare reform now. Ted Kennedy is trying to push a health program on us and he exempts himself and the rest of Congress. If he were in the program he's giving to us, he'd be dead right now because he wouldn't have access to all that expensive experimental care for a terminal brain cancer, but now we won't be entitled to that kind of care. What a hypocrite. I'd like to see someone justify that. Anyone?

0 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;64938 wrote:

Something must be done the current system clearly isn't working.

It isn't working because too many people that think they are entitled to what other peoples money pays for are abusing the system. Illegals, and dumbasses that take their kids to the emerency room for a cold, opportunist sueing doctors and other scammers trying to take from those that do because they are too lazy to do for themselves, THAT is why the system is failing.

No one DESERVES free healthcare, and everyone in America has the exact same opportunity to get out and WORK for aliving, and get the same healthcare others have. To think that anyone DESERVES a service that people that pay to go to medical school provide for free just because is a ******* pathetic. How about you pay your way through medical school yourself and go give your services away for free. Or do you think that the government OWES it to you to pay for your heathcare? If so...why? What makes anyone think they deserve a free ride on other peoples backs? That's the very attitude that is destroying the very fabric of what makes this country strong. Pathetic.

1 Reply

@92b16vx,

92b16vx;66331 wrote:

It isn't working because too many people that think they are entitled to what other peoples money pays for are abusing the system. Illegals, and dumbasses that take their kids to the emerency room for a cold, opportunist sueing doctors and other scammers trying to take from those that do because they are too lazy to do for themselves, THAT is why the system is failing.

No one DESERVES free healthcare, and everyone in America has the exact same opportunity to get out and WORK for aliving, and get the same healthcare others have. To think that anyone DESERVES a service that people that pay to go to medical school provide for free just because is a ***ing pathetic. How about you pay your way through medical school yourself and go give your services away for free. Or do you think that the government OWES it to you to pay for your heathcare? If so...why? What makes anyone think they deserve a free ride on other peoples backs? That's the very attitude that is destroying the very fabric of what makes this country strong. Pathetic.

Health care is a life saving service just like police or fire. no on should have to die or be permanently crippled because their wallet isn't thick enough.

Often times if people don't receive proper medical care they simply become a burden to the state anyway. So it's better to just give them proper care.

Monetary concerns should not take priority over human life.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;66363 wrote:

Health care is a life saving service just like police or fire. no on should have to die or be permanently crippled because their wallet isn't thick enough.

They don't, real emergency services are offered to everyone, and there's no law prohibiting people from getting a job, and paying for their own healthcare.

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Often times if people don't receive proper medical care they simply become a burden to the state anyway. So it's better to just give them proper care.

Or, they can pay for their own healthcare like every other responsible person.

Quote:

Monetary concerns should not take priority over human life.

Put yourself through medical school, then get sued by some greedy fcuk and say that.

1 Reply

@92b16vx,

92b16vx;66368 wrote:

They don't, real emergency services are offered to everyone,

Until they find out you don't have insurance.

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and there's no law prohibiting people from getting a job, and paying for their own healthcare.

health care is ridiculously over-priced, not everybody has the means to afford it.

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Or, they can pay for their own healthcare like every other responsible person.

That isn't always an option. Why discriminate against the poor?

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Put yourself through medical school, then get sued by some greedy fcuk and say that.

What does this have to do with anything? This is possible regardless of how it is paid for.

2 Replies

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;66379 wrote:

Until they find out you don't have insurance.

health care is ridiculously over-priced, not everybody has the means to afford it.

That isn't always an option. Why discriminate against the poor?

What does this have to do with anything? This is possible regardless of how it is paid for.

We have a National Health in this country and I have to say I am pretty damn proud of it.

Any forward thinking society which wants to grow and have a moral social structure should aspire to have free health care for everyone.
It should be a minimum requirement.

2 Replies

the irony of health care reform

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