Sex Ed was never the right's forte

@Sabz5150,

You can't have it both ways. I watched his reaction to Planned Parenthood stating he was accused of supporting sex ed to kindergarteners, making fun of Alan Keyes, and then after the laughter, stating, "But, it's the right thing to do." Of course he justified it with age appropriate but the materials were all about masturbation, homosexuality, etc. THAT is NOT age appropriate for my 5 year old!!!

I totally disagree with sex ed on a whole anyway. Look at the stats since it has been introduces. Sexual activity has run rampant and kids that believe in absintence until marriage are made fun of on national tv! Case in point - the Jonas Brothers on Sunday night!

2 Replies

@westernmom,

westernmom;59520 wrote:

You can't have it both ways. I watched his reaction to Planned Parenthood stating he was accused of supporting sex ed to kindergarteners, making fun of Alan Keyes, and then after the laughter, stating, "But, it's the right thing to do." Of course he justified it with age appropriate but the materials were all about masturbation, homosexuality, etc. THAT is NOT age appropriate for my 5 year old!!!

The "right thing to do" was in regards to sex education itself, not the teaching of it to kindergarten children. In that regard, I agree with him.

Quote:

I totally disagree with sex ed on a whole anyway. Look at the stats since it has been introduces. Sexual activity has run rampant and kids that believe in absintence until marriage are made fun of on national tv! Case in point - the Jonas Brothers on Sunday night!

That's your choice. Don't want your child in a sex ed class? You have the option to opt-out. No questions asked. It's that simple. Hell, it was that way in my sex-ed class and a couple students DID opt-out.

If you want another case in point, we can always just say Bristol. Regardless of it's "taste", it does show a failure of abstinence only ideology.

Then there's this: STATS.org - Contraception v Abstinence Education

The ultimate goal is to reduce unwanted pregnancies, regardless of the path taken to achieve it. The best way to do this is by education, plain and simple. The well educated child will make responsible choices. The poorly educated child will not.

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@Sabz5150,

Excuse me - during his little speech HE brought up the fact that he had been accused of promoting sex ed to "kindergarteners" and then made the comment it's the right thing to do and them made the comment about age appropriate. You can't spin it any other direction! He didn't say jr high or high school or even grade school.

Imagine my shock when my 9 year old brought home a pamphlet in the early 80's showing him how to masturbate and telling him it was okay! He was embarassed because this had been shown in a coed class. That teacher, principal, and superindendant soon found out who I was!

I then became active in the school and was able to get the option of opting out for parents and students of these types of classes. I then offered through the PTA to organize the "maturing" classes. We set up a program where the 5th, 6th, 7th grade students were separated into boys and girls, the parents were sent a permission slip and an invitation to attend, and then had speakers ranging from nurses, law enforcement, parents, etc that covered the topics. Parents were given all materials ahead of time and had the option to have their children attend a fun physical education activity.

I have the conservative opinion that it is my duty to handle the sex ed of my children and not the government's. Just the same as teaching religious values.

We can teach our children and give them good examples but they have their own free agency to exercise their will - such as Bristol Palin. It's how they handle the situation that's important. Is she going to become a tax burden by having an abortion or being a single unwed mother? I doubt it. Having a baby at 17 is not the end all!

1 Reply

@westernmom,

westernmom;59614 wrote:

Excuse me - during his little speech HE brought up the fact that he had been accused of promoting sex ed to "kindergarteners" and then made the comment it's the right thing to do and them made the comment about age appropriate. You can't spin it any other direction! He didn't say jr high or high school or even grade school.

And he didn't say 5 year olds, now did he?

Quote:

Imagine my shock when my 9 year old brought home a pamphlet in the early 80's showing him how to masturbate and telling him it was okay! He was embarassed because this had been shown in a coed class. That teacher, principal, and superindendant soon found out who I was!

Strange, I'm married to a teacher that comes from a family of teachers, and NOTHING of that sort has ever been shown. I also have a child in public schools. Again, NOTHING of that sort has ever been shown.

Quote:

I then became active in the school and was able to get the option of opting out for parents and students of these types of classes. I then offered through the PTA to organize the "maturing" classes. We set up a program where the 5th, 6th, 7th grade students were separated into boys and girls, the parents were sent a permission slip and an invitation to attend, and then had speakers ranging from nurses, law enforcement, parents, etc that covered the topics. Parents were given all materials ahead of time and had the option to have their children attend a fun physical education activity.

You know what I called that? My sex-ed class. Plain and simple. I remember wondering why they split us up, I remember all the talks. Your idea that they're just passing around "Hey, go whack off!" pamphlets is false and misleading. That, or your school system is SERIOUSLY flawed.

Quote:

I have the conservative opinion that it is my duty to handle the sex ed of my children and not the government's. Just the same as teaching religious values.

So you believe that both should be explicitly kept out of public schools?

Quote:

We can teach our children and give them good examples but they have their own free agency to exercise their will - such as Bristol Palin. It's how they handle the situation that's important. Is she going to become a tax burden by having an abortion or being a single unwed mother? I doubt it. Having a baby at 17 is not the end all!

So Bristol gets a pass on all of this? Even though she is a prime example of the failure of abstinence (they do whatever regardless, exercising their will)?

1 Reply

@Sabz5150,

Sabz5150;59617 wrote:

And he didn't say 5 year olds, now did he?

Strange, I'm married to a teacher that comes from a family of teachers, and NOTHING of that sort has ever been shown. I also have a child in public schools. Again, NOTHING of that sort has ever been shown.

You know what I called that? My sex-ed class. Plain and simple. I remember wondering why they split us up, I remember all the talks. Your idea that they're just passing around "Hey, go whack off!" pamphlets is false and misleading. That, or your school system is SERIOUSLY flawed.

ISo you believe that both should be explicitly kept out of public schools?

So Bristol gets a pass on all of this? Even though she is a prime example of the failure of abstinence (they do whatever regardless, exercising their will)?

kept the pamphlet for years but have no idea what happened to it. But this is basically the same one:

ACOG Education Pamphlet AP042 -- You and Your Sexuality Especially for Teens

This is the common pamphlet used in jr high (I was a secretary and have 2 daughters that teach as well). Scroll down the the part that says "Other forms of Sexual Expression". Is this want you want others to teach your kids.

I think that it is my responsiblity to "teach" my kids about both and didn't leave it up to someone else.

And who are you to judge her? She isn't getting a "pass". Her name has been slandered and thrown out for the world to see, she is going to have a baby to take care of for the rest of her life, her childhood is ending... but I guess you think she's getting a pass. What? Do you want her flogged?

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@Sabz5150,

OH and by the way, how old are kindergarteners? Most of them are 5 years old and that's what HE brought up!

1 Reply

@westernmom,

westernmom;59620 wrote:

kept the pamphlet for years but have no idea what happened to it. But this is basically the same one:

ACOG Education Pamphlet AP042 -- You and Your Sexuality Especially for Teens

This is the common pamphlet used in jr high (I was a secretary and have 2 daughters that teach as well). Scroll down the the part that says "Other forms of Sexual Expression". Is this want you want others to teach your kids.

I think that it is my responsiblity to "teach" my kids about both and didn't leave it up to someone else.

And who are you to judge her? She isn't getting a "pass". Her name has been slandered and thrown out for the world to see, she is going to have a baby to take care of for the rest of her life, her childhood is ending... but I guess you think she's getting a pass. What? Do you want her flogged?

Odd. What is a nine year old doing with something called "You and Your Sexuality Especially for Teens" to begin with?

Secondly you didn't answer the sex-ed and religion question. Are you saying that they should be kept out of schools?

As for Bristol, I do not judge her. She made her own decision, she is the one that must shoulder that weight. However what I am judging is the hypocrisy of a person who advocates abstinence only sex-ed while her child becomes a statistic.

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@westernmom,

westernmom;59621 wrote:

OH and by the way, how old are kindergarteners? Most of them are 5 years old and that's what HE brought up!

Did he say "I think teaching sex ed to 5 year old kindergarteners is the right thing to do."?

Yes or no. Did he say that?

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@Sabz5150,

As a final note... concerning slander and being thrown through the mud wrongly... I wasn't the one who only twenty-four hours ago honestly believed that Obama said he would like the national anthem changed to the Coca-Cola theme.

The worst slander is that which is passed along as the truth.

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@Sabz5150,

Okay, one more time...

The pamphlet was NOT the same but very similar. Apparently you don't read everything.

I also said it is MY responsibility to teach sex ed and religious values to my kids and not expect the government to do so.

Have you not watched and listened to Obama on this? He said they accused him of wanting sex ed taught to kindergarteners...ha, ha, isn't that funny, but it's the right thing to do. Why in the heck can't you understand that he was agreeing that sex ed was the right thing to do for kindergarten kids? YES, YES, YES! He said it!

And why is it hypocriscy if you teach your kid something and they go a different direction. It's called PARENTING!

Tell me that your kids listened to and followed everything you ever taught them. If you do, I know you are a liar because I don't know any kid that has ever done so completely.

Palin is trying to teach her kids something, but her daughter made her own personal choice. So why is that hypocrisy? If she never would have taught her anything then you could accuse her.

But, I'm beginning to see after trying to have a discussion with you that you only read or see what you want and make judgements on the rest.

1 Reply

@westernmom,

westernmom;59628 wrote:

Okay, one more time...

The pamphlet was NOT the same but very similar. Apparently you don't read everything.

I also said it is MY responsibility to teach sex ed and religious values to my kids and not expect the government to do so.

Have you not watched and listened to Obama on this? He said they accused him of wanting sex ed taught to kindergarteners...ha, ha, isn't that funny, but it's the right thing to do. Why in the heck can't you understand that he was agreeing that sex ed was the right thing to do for kindergarten kids? YES, YES, YES! He said it!

And why is it hypocriscy if you teach your kid something and they go a different direction. It's called PARENTING!

Tell me that your kids listened to and followed everything you ever taught them. If you do, I know you are a liar because I don't know any kid that has ever done so completely.

Palin is trying to teach her kids something, but her daughter made her own personal choice. So why is that hypocrisy? If she never would have taught her anything then you could accuse her.

But, I'm beginning to see after trying to have a discussion with you that you only read or see what you want and make judgements on the rest.

Really?

PolitiFact | An absurd claim about a bill that never passed

Obama said that he did not support telling youngsters about explicit information about sex. The bill specifically mentions that instructional material must be age appropriate. It specifically mentions teaching children how to "say no to unwanted sexual advances" and "nonconsensual physical sexual contact." The legislation was not sponsored by Obama and it didn't pass, so calling it one of his "accomplishments" is absurd. We rate this claim Pants on Fire!

http://www.thebostonbachelor.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/kool-aid-man.png

OHHHHHHHHHH YEAH!!!

What's hypocritical? What you taught your child in order to protect her is ineffective, yet you want to push this on everyone else. THAT is what is hypocritical.

You have to admit that not only has the McCain campaign been fueled by these sorts of lies, but that you have also been duped into believing them.

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@Sabz5150,

Come on... if one of your "Conservative values" is (and I quote you on this) Be honest in all dealings, then it's time that you be honest. Anything else is bearing false witness, and I think that's another value of yours... number nine I do believe.

Also, if these are your values, how can you vote for McCain who I have proven several times has violated them? He's LYING in his ads. That is not "being honest in all dealings", now is it?

I think we were discussing hypocrisy... shall we continue?

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@Sabz5150,

So why would it be honest of me to vote for someone who does not even come close to my values and standards. To vote for someone who sits in a church for 20 years and listens to sermons about hating America and then says he never heard it? To vote for someone who says he has no idea of when life begins and supports partial birth abortions. To vote for someone who says we should turn our back on corp America and go work for local non-profits and his wife does so and receives $317K a year to do so and also receives compensation for sitting on several different boards. To vote for someone who distorts his "humble background" even though he lived with his grandmother who was VP of a large bank. Who has close associations with a domestic terrorist.

Nope, my honesty is voting for someone who more mirrors what I want for my country, not what you want.

Oh, and on the sex ed issue. He voted present so darn many times but on this one he voted YES in committee - it just didn't get passed. There were many more smart legislators than him that killed it. So, I guess he really didn't accomplish anything did he????

On the issue of parenting and accountability... Will it be "do as I say and not as I do" for Obama and drugs with his kids?

1 Reply

@westernmom,

westernmom;59746 wrote:

So why would it be honest of me to vote for someone who does not even come close to my values and standards. To vote for someone who sits in a church for 20 years and listens to sermons about hating America and then says he never heard it? To vote for someone who says he has no idea of when life begins and supports partial birth abortions. To vote for someone who says we should turn our back on corp America and go work for local non-profits and his wife does so and receives $317K a year to do so and also receives compensation for sitting on several different boards. To vote for someone who distorts his "humble background" even though he lived with his grandmother who was VP of a large bank. Who has close associations with a domestic terrorist.

Nope, my honesty is voting for someone who more mirrors what I want for my country, not what you want.

Oh, and on the sex ed issue. He voted present so darn many times but on this one he voted YES in committee - it just didn't get passed. There were many more smart legislators than him that killed it. So, I guess he really didn't accomplish anything did he????

On the issue of parenting and accountability... Will it be "do as I say and not as I do" for Obama and drugs with his kids?

Nice dodging the fact that your arguments are lies. You won't even admit, after being shown (not once, but TWICE... i.e. the coca-cola theme) that your claims are false. You're not being honest, not in the slightest.

Quote from you: "Why in the heck can't you understand that he was agreeing that sex ed was the right thing to do for kindergarten kids? YES, YES, YES! He said it!"

Is that or is it not a falsehood? I'm thinking it is!

You're saying a lot about your character without saying a word.

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@Sabz5150,

Obama is often quoted as saying that when it comes to sex education in public schools, “it’s the right thing to do ... to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools,” placing an emphasis on the word "appropriate." But Obama has also said he does not support, "explicit sex education to children in kindergarten."

In a debate with Republican Alan Keyes, against whom Obama was running for an open seat in the U.S. Senate in 2004, Obama made it clear that at least one reason he supported the bill was that it would help teach young kids to recognize inappropriate behavior and pedophiles:

Keyes, Oct. 21, 2004: Well, I had noticed that, in your voting, you had voted, at one point, that sex education should begin in kindergarten, and you justified it by saying that it would be "age-appropriate" sex education. [It] made me wonder just exactly what you think is "age-appropriate."

Obama: We have a existing law that mandates sex education in the schools. We want to make sure that it's medically accurate and age-appropriate. Now, I'll give you an example, because I have a six-year-old daughter and a three-year-old daughter, and one of the things my wife and I talked to our daughter about is the possibility of somebody touching them inappropriately, and what that might mean. And that was included specifically in the law, so that kindergarteners are able to exercise some possible protection against abuse, because I have family members as well as friends who suffered abuse at that age. So, that's the kind of stuff that I was talking about in that piece of legislation.

FactCheck.org: Off Base on Sex Ed

I'm still waiting for you to admit that you are wrong.

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@Sabz5150,

I have watched his speech to Planned Parenthood several times and he said what he said. I don't rely on factcheck or anyone else to check my resources out for me. I do it myself. Honestly!!!

I stated my reasons why I won't vote for him. Why is that lying? Because I won't agree with you. Does that make me a liar? I think not, anymore than it makes you a liar for all of the crap you spout. I don't agree, that's it! Take it or leave it. It's my point of view which happens to be different than yours. It doesn't make me a liar. It makes me honest to myself. I have different life experiences than you and so I have different views and opinions. It doesn't make me a liar or dishonest. I am now leaving your spin zone...

1 Reply

@westernmom,

westernmom;59752 wrote:

I have watched his speech to Planned Parenthood several times and he said what he said. I don't rely on factcheck or anyone else to check my resources out for me. I do it myself. Honestly!!!

I stated my reasons why I won't vote for him. Why is that lying? Because I won't agree with you. Does that make me a liar? I think not, anymore than it makes you a liar for all of the crap you spout. I don't agree, that's it! Take it or leave it. It's my point of view which happens to be different than yours. It doesn't make me a liar. It makes me honest to myself. I have different life experiences than you and so I have different views and opinions. It doesn't make me a liar or dishonest. I am now leaving your spin zone...

What makes you a liar is that you are saying something that never happened. NOWHERE has Obama stated that he approves of teaching explicit sex-ed to kindergarterners. I have posted two non-biased links that have fully researched this and came to the same conclusion: Obama never made such a statement and he does not support such an action.

There's no problem with disagreeing with the man on his policies, but to flat out lie about them is disingenuous and dishonest. :thumbdown:

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@Sabz5150,

I didn't "read" about his statement, I watched it and drew my own conclusions from his remarks. Much as you do when you watch McCain or Palin. I heard what I heard.

I also make judgements based on his voting record - slim though it is - supporting sex education and the materials were not age appropriate in my opinion - nor in the opinion of others or it wouldn't have been voted down.

Here is the bill as presented and voted YES by Obama:

SB99 - Illinois 2003
K-12 Comprehensive Sex Education Bill

(1) Factual information presented in course material and instruction shall be medically accurate and objective.
(2) All course material and instruction in classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual activity or behavior shall be age and developmentally appropriate.
(3) Course material and instruction shall include a discussion of sexual abstinence as a method to prevent unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections, including HIV.
(4) Course material and instruction shall present the latest medically factual information regarding both the possible side effects and health benefits of all forms of contraception, including the success and failure
rates for the prevention of pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections, including HIV.
(5) Course material and instruction shall stress that sexually transmitted infections are serious possible hazards of sexual activity or behavior. Pupils shall be provided with statistics based on the latest medical information citing the failure and success rates of all contraceptive methods in preventing unintended pregnancy and HIV and other sexually transmitted infections.
(6) Course material and instruction shall advise pupils that it is unlawful for males or females of any age to engage in sexual conduct or have sexual relations with a minor as specified in Article 12 of the Criminal Code of 1961.
(7) Course material and instruction shall discuss and provide for the development of positive communication skills to maintain healthy relationships and avoid unwanted sexual activity.
(8) Course material and instruction shall emphasize that the pupil has the power to control personal behavior. Pupils shall be encouraged to base their actions on reasoning, self-discipline, sense of responsibility, self-control, and ethical considerations, such as respect for oneself and others.
(9) Course material and instruction shall teach pupils to not make unwanted physical and verbal sexual advances and how to say no to unwanted sexual advances and shall include information about verbal, physical, and
visual sexual harassment, including without limitation nonconsensual sexual advances, non consensual physical sexual contact, and rape by an acquaintance. The course material and instruction shall contain methods of preventing sexual assault by an acquaintance, including exercising good judgment and avoiding behavior that
impairs one’s judgment. The course material and instruction shall emphasize personal accountability and respect for others and shall also encourage youth to resist negative peer pressure. The course material and instruction shall inform pupils of the potential legal consequences of sexual assault by an acquaintance. Specifically, pupils shall be advised that it is unlawful to touch an intimate part of another person, as specified in the Criminal Code of 1961.
(10) Course material and instruction shall teach male pupils about male accountability for sexual violence and shall teach female students about reducing vulnerability for sexual violence.
(11) Course material and instruction shall teach pupils about counseling, medical, and legal resources available to survivors of sexual abuse and sexual assault, including resources for escaping violent relationships.
(12) Course material and instruction in classes that discuss sexual activity or behavior shall teach pupils that it is wrong to take advantage of or to exploit another person.
(13) Course material and instruction shall be free of racial, ethnic, gender, religious, and sexual orientation biases.

1 Reply

@westernmom,

Now, where in any of that are you getting that he wants to teach 5 year olds about Tab-A, Slot-B? Doesn't look like that's the purpose of this bill. However helping kids identify when they are being sexually abused, and how to deal with such a situation, that's discussed quite a bit in the aforementioned piece of legislation.

But if you want to keep chugging the kool-aid concerning a subject that everyone else has debunked and long since put to rest (we're talking about being shot down roughly four years ago), well that's your choice.

Laughing at you and lowering my faith in humanity by a notch, well that's mine.

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Sex Ed was never the right's forte

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