GOP Frontrunners Skip Black Debate

@aaronssongs,

Republicans never get the black vote, so the loss of their support is inconsequential. The debate would've been a hit-job on all of the frontrunners, and could only have damaged their reputations. It was a lose/lose situation, but not attending did less damage than would have been done by actually showing up.

1 Reply

@Freeman15,

Freeman15;39752 wrote:

Republicans never get the black vote, so the loss of their support is inconsequential. The debate would've been a hit-job on all of the frontrunners, and could only have damaged their reputations. It was a lose/lose situation, but not attending did less damage than would have been done by actually showing up.

Excuse me, but what kind of rationale is that? Are not black people a part of America, or would the Republican, were he to win, would not be the president presiding over the black populace? Come back to reality.
The fact that Republicans don't get the "bulk of the black vote", shouldn't play into whether or not they show up a "black-sponsored" debate , where issues important to black Americans are brought up. How chicken sh..
How disrespectful. And how foolish. If a Republican thinks he can win without the minority vote...he is sadly mistaken....not many, but quite a few black and Hispanic voters made the difference in both Bush runs.

2 Replies

@aaronssongs,

To me, this smacks of racism. Sorry, but there it is. Were I to host a "white debate" for presidential candidates, I would be branded a racist, and any candidate who attended would be signing his/her own political death warrant.

Why do candidates need to sell themselves to specific racial groups? Individually, Americans are pretty smart folks. (In groups, we can all be pretty stupid.) Why not allow the candidates to put themselves and their positions out there, and let folks (not black folks or white folks, all folks) make up their minds how each candidate fits with their own agendas? Were I a candidate, why would I have to attend a specific "black debate" in order to sell myself to black America? Why would you expect me to pander?

Frankly, were I a candidate, I would decline to attend such a debate. In my refusal, I would respectfully explain why I was declining. In the end, there is so much division in this nation, race to race, gender to gender, and on and on. I have no interest in continuing this division, but think that its time we ALL stop defining ourselves as (insert race, gender, creed, etc here) Americans.

2 Replies

@kmchugh,

Let me just take this a step further:

Suppose I was a member of the House, and I decided that there were issues that were specific to the white race that needed to be addressed. So, I start a “club” of white congressional members. Now, understand that the goal of this “club” isn’t at all to hold back any other “race.” I simply want to make sure that all the white members of congress have an ability to network among themselves and discuss those issues that affect our “race.” If I weren’t recalled, there is no doubt that I’d be branded (perhaps literally) as a racist, and I’d be bounced out of congress in the next election. Yet we have the Congressional Black Caucus. If we question the existence of this organization, the reasons therefore, we are still labeled as racists.

Or suppose that I were a philanthropist with a ton of money who believed in the value of education. As such, I decide to start a foundation to fund kids going to college. I further decide that I only want to fund white kids for whatever reason. Again, I’d be labeled a racist, and would be a pariah in the philanthropic community. Yet, we have United Negro College Fund, and no one considers it racist.

The Congressional Black Caucus is clearly racist. It has no place whatever in our national politics, and should be censured by the government. On the other hand, I don’t view the UNCF as racist at all. This is an organization that sees a desperate need, and is trying to meet that need. The point here is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. If a UNCF, or any organization that supports only blacks is acceptable, then an organization that supports only whites, or only hispanics, or whatever, must be acceptable as well.

I could go on and on. I would not suggest that racism is gone. Lord, I live in the south, and I see racism every day. But, I will take the politically incorrect stance that any racism is wrong. There is anti-black racism, and I am sick of it. But, living in the south, I see just as much racism directed from the black community to the white community as I see going the other way.

I’m tired of ALL of it. I’m tired of hearing barely concealed white supremacists making ugly, denigrating comments about blacks. I’m tired of these same people condemning a whole race, allowing for only a few “good” blacks. I’m tired all unequal treatment. Two kids, one black and one white, commit the same crime. The white kid gets probation, the black kid gets the book thrown at them.

I’m also tired of being the target of obvious anti-white racism. What I’m really sick of are the programs and events that serve no better purpose than to drive a wedge even deeper between the races. If we can’t get past these things, we will never rid ourselves of racism, on ANY side.

If you think this post makes me a racist, then consider this. I think the whole concept of "race" is false, an artificial construct to divide people. There is no "white race." There is no "black race." Look around you. Folks range from the palest white to the darkest black, with every shade in between amply represented. I just think its high time we forgot the whole construct as the nonsense it is, and begin to look at people as people, not as (fill in your favorite "race" here) people.

1 Reply

@aaronssongs,

You are actually spot on kmchugh. It goes to show that America is still a very racist country, reverse racism is still racism.

1 Reply

@xj0hnx,

xj0hnx;39799 wrote:

You are actually spot on kmchugh. It goes to show that America is still a very racist country, reverse racism is still racism.

I agree to a certain point but the real problem is the demorats keep blacks down with their welfare hand outs that a lot of blacks can't break loose of

2 Replies

@REDWHITEBLUE2,

REDWHITEBLUE2;39854 wrote:

I agree to a certain point but the real problem is the demorats keep blacks down with their welfare hand outs that a lot of blacks can't break loose of

Sorry, but to say that blacks can't break loose of the "welfare hand outs" is just as racist a statement as anything else I talked about.

It is true that the rules governing welfare in this nation are specifically set up to keep the impoverished poor, these rules are focused on income, not race. And there are a number of people, of all "races," who do find ways around the system, and work their way out of poverty.

0 Replies

@kmchugh,

kmchugh;39790 wrote:

To me, this smacks of racism. Sorry, but there it is. Were I to host a "white debate" for presidential candidates, I would be branded a racist, and any candidate who attended would be signing his/her own political death warrant.

Why do candidates need to sell themselves to specific racial groups? Individually, Americans are pretty smart folks. (In groups, we can all be pretty stupid.) Why not allow the candidates to put themselves and their positions out there, and let folks (not black folks or white folks, all folks) make up their minds how each candidate fits with their own agendas? Were I a candidate, why would I have to attend a specific "black debate" in order to sell myself to black America? Why would you expect me to pander?

Frankly, were I a candidate, I would decline to attend such a debate. In my refusal, I would respectfully explain why I was declining. In the end, there is so much division in this nation, race to race, gender to gender, and on and on. I have no interest in continuing this division, but think that its time we ALL stop defining ourselves as (insert race, gender, creed, etc here) Americans.

Wow, let's continue to tip toe around the pink and polka-dotted elephant sitting in the middle of the room....that being race and racism.
As minorities, and specifically, "black people", who are , at times, treated as different, "less than", "unequal", and "problematic", candidates for president cannot ignore the specific issues faced by people of color in this country.
Is not the president, "our" president, as well as "yours"...then, he should be sensitive to "our" concerns, which differ, in tone, and magnitude to your concerns. To suggest anything otherwise, would be to ignore the "unleveled playing field", in terms of resources, accessibility, opportunity, services, and the like. One need only look at what is happening in Jena, Louisiana, to see that there are two kinds of justice, two kinds of rules, and this in almost 2008.
And it wasn't a "black debate", per se, but one designed to specifically answer questions concerning "black voters"....not any much difference, for when candidates go trolling for the Jewish vote in NYC, South Florida, or LA...or the "poor white vote" in Appalachia and W. Virginia. Give me a break.
In the election in 2000, where thousands of black voters were disenfranchised in South Florida, mainly behind Republican "dirty tricks"...which may have proved Gore to be the winner (he actually won the popular vote, as you may recall)..and you mean to tell me that we, as black people don't have anything to discuss with the potential President of the United States....and that said potential candidate doesn't have an downright obligation to sit down and inquire about what is important to us as US citizens??????????????????????????? Please...it's times like this when I need medication, to calm my nerves....I have no idea what people think...are they living in a vacuum? Are they not of this Earth? Do they have brains? If they do, why don't they use them? Talking to now means "pandering"...And Lord knows, you can't be seen pandering to the darkies...what would good church going folk think? Lord, they was freed from slavery, and now they wanna elect the president....well, we'll see about that. We sure as hell, won't talk to them.

1 Reply

@kmchugh,

kmchugh;39792 wrote:

Congressional Black Caucus.United Negro College Fund,must be acceptable as well.

I could go on and on. I would not suggest that racism is gone. Lord, I live in the south, and I see racism every day. But, I will take the politically incorrect stance that any

Surprisingly, well-said!

0 Replies

@REDWHITEBLUE2,

REDWHITEBLUE2;39854 wrote:

I agree to a certain point but the real problem is the demorats keep blacks down with their welfare hand outs that a lot of blacks can't break loose of

Absolutely untrue and unfounded....show some documentation supporting your claim.

1 Reply

@aaronssongs,

aaronssongs;39760 wrote:

Excuse me, but what kind of rationale is that? Are not black people a part of America, or would the Republican, were he to win, would not be the president presiding over the black populace? Come back to reality.
The fact that Republicans don't get the "bulk of the black vote", shouldn't play into whether or not they show up a "black-sponsored" debate , where issues important to black Americans are brought up. How chicken sh..
How disrespectful. And how foolish. If a Republican thinks he can win without the minority vote...he is sadly mistaken....not many, but quite a few black and Hispanic voters made the difference in both Bush runs.

The Black vote goes DNC in upwards of 80% every election. Nearly all black congressional districts are DNC, and the last two black senators have been DNC. This debate could have ONLY hurt the frontrunners, because they aren't going to get the black vote. They'd be lucky if this debate got them 10%.

It might as well have been a Republican debate moderated by DNC delegates. They lost less than they would have lost had they attended the debate.

1 Reply

@aaronssongs,

aaronssongs;39881 wrote:

Absolutely untrue and unfounded....show some documentation supporting your claim.

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0891-2432(199403)8%3A1%3C8%3AGRATDO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-0

Blacks, Hispanics, and women are more likely to use medicaid than white men. Fact.

0 Replies

@aaronssongs,

aaronssongs;39879 wrote:

but one designed to specifically answer questions concerning "black voters"

this is EXACTLY why racism and more specifically reverse racism still exists.

What concerns you more than me, based SOLEY on skin color?

What difference does a white voter have that a black voter doesn't have, and vice versa?

(now, pardon my stereotypes.... BUT i'm trying to prove a point with this... not meant degrading)
elections don't have anything to do with sunblock lotion for the whites, or de-tangler hair products for the blacks.

So, what issues, from a presidential standpoint has ANYTHING to do with color at all?

nothing.

gov't doesn't make plans for blacks and plans for whites.

i'm not feeling that I'm conveying this correctly, but it makes sense in my head... do you follow/catch my drift of my point?

1 Reply

@Freeman15,

Freeman15;39959 wrote:

The Black vote goes DNC in upwards of 80% every election. Nearly all black congressional districts are DNC, and the last two black senators have been DNC. This debate could have ONLY hurt the frontrunners, because they aren't going to get the black vote. They'd be lucky if this debate got them 10%.

It might as well have been a Republican debate moderated by DNC delegates. They lost less than they would have lost had they attended the debate.

So, that would be the very reason the GOP "shouldn't" reach out to the black community, because they don't stand a chance?
Well, you got that right...if they continue to act like we don't matter, or that we're not "real Americans"...then the DNC, will continue to profit from black voters voting.

1 Reply

@briansol,

briansol;40155 wrote:

this is EXACTLY why racism and more specifically reverse racism still exists.

Racism exist because of ignorance and fear...ignorance of the fact that people are people, regardless of skin color, with the same needs, and wants. Fear that someone is going to get ahead of you in line...get what you have...get more than you...be the very stereotype that you think that they are....or that your belief system may be all wrong, and you might have to change your way of thinking.

What concerns you more than me, based SOLEY on skin color?

That we're both playing on a level playing field...that I am afforded the same opportunities, resources, and expectations that you are.
There is a such thing as "white privilege"...Debbie Allen, producer of "A Different World", did a story on a "real life event", that happened to her...the story goes, she went in to a Rodeo Drive jewelry store, in Los Angeles, to buy a gift for a friend, and the salesperson, not recognizing her, offered that she was "out of her league" in this upscale store, and that she should shop "elsewhere".....to which Debbie replied, "Show me the most expensive watch you have in here"...the woman complied, and she "bought it", on the spot, to show her not to underestimate anyone...not even a person of color.

What difference does a white voter have that a black voter doesn't have, and vice versa?

Where were you when thousands of black voters were turned away from the polls in Florida, preventing them from casting their decided Democratic votes for Gore, in 2000???? The same thing happened in Ohio, in 2004. Do you read?

(now, pardon my stereotypes.... BUT i'm trying to prove a point with this... not meant degrading)
elections don't have anything to do with sunblock lotion for the whites, or de-tangler hair products for the blacks.

So, what issues, from a presidential standpoint has ANYTHING to do with color at all?

Equal employment, equal pay for equal work, benefits, child care, better schools, equipped equally as predominantly white schools are equipped, better teachers, better paid, equal housing opportunity, equal financing with banks and loan corporations, better representation for issues which are particular to the black community, at large....better representation to better express our points of view....and on, and on, and on...

gov't doesn't make plans for blacks and plans for whites.

i'm not feeling that I'm conveying this correctly, but it makes sense in my head... do you follow/catch my drift of my point?

I got it...did you get mine?

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@aaronssongs,

Quote:

That we're both playing on a level playing field...that I am afforded the same opportunities, resources, and expectations that you are.
There is a such thing as "white privilege"...Debbie Allen, producer of "A Different World", did a story on a "real life event", that happened to her...the story goes, she went in to a Rodeo Drive jewelry store, in Los Angeles, to buy a gift for a friend, and the salesperson, not recognizing her, offered that she was "out of her league" in this upscale store, and that she should shop "elsewhere".....to which Debbie replied, "Show me the most expensive watch you have in here"...the woman complied, and she "bought it", on the spot, to show her not to underestimate anyone...not even a person of color.

it's not a color thing.... look at Pretty Woman. Julia Roberts was treated pretty much the same way, and went to a completive store and spent all that money there.

Without BEING there or knowing the whole story...

I mean, she could have walked in with ripped pants and looked like a homeless person. I can't say 100% that it was a color thing, but more perhaps an 'appearance' and how she held her self, spoke, or otherwise.

and then it gets turned around (reverse racism!!) into a color thing....

:shrug:

Quote:

Where were you when thousands of black voters were turned away from the polls in Florida, preventing them from casting their decided Democratic votes for Gore, in 2000???? The same thing happened in Ohio, in 2004. Do you read?

I vaguely remember this.... i pretty much was dis-interested in politics back then.

I do remember the dead people voting though, so it's obvious the election system is fubar. Every polling center has their own gear, and i think that's a huge problem. we need a standardized voting system put in place.

Quote:

Equal employment, equal pay for equal work, benefits, child care, better schools, equipped equally as predominantly white schools are equipped, better teachers, better paid, equal housing opportunity, equal financing with banks and loan corporations, better representation for issues which are particular to the black community, at large....better representation to better express our points of view....and on, and on, and on...

gov't doesn't make plans for blacks and plans for whites.

none of these are government issues though. They are private sector.
schools, they all suck to some extent... and the main issue there is districting and tax monies (or lack there of) that the city is able to collect.

my city is a good example of this.

I'd hazard a guess that the race split is roughly
80% Caucasian
12% Hispanic
7% African-American
1% other (Asian, etc)

We have 8 elementary schools, strategically placed in town since the early 40's or 50's semi-equidistant apart from one another.

Ivy Drive is probably 99% white and is probably the flagship school disctrict.
O'Connel is probably 35% African-american, 30% hispanic, and 35% white and is probably considered the 'worst' school district.

here's ivy drive. its the thing with the field...
ivy drive bristol ct - Google Maps

as you can see, its a nice wooded area on residential streets.

here's oconnel:
park street bristol ct - Google Maps

looks decent from the air, but its really pretty dumpy. all the houses to the right are the 3-family deals i will speak of below.

The area that ivy drive is in is upper middle class homes, 250-350k ish.
the area that o'connel is in is the old downtown area, filled with 3 family homes from the 20's that are pretty much all low income and section 8 rents now.

Short of tearing down the 'old neighborhood' and building nicer houses there, how do you fix this?
No one who can afford a 250k home is going to live in a run down 800 sq ft 3-family on the 3rd floor.

bus them? for better integration? it was discussed many times -- even as far as swapping students with neighboring towns.
at the end of the day, all it does is cost the city tons more money for tons more extra miles for the buses, kids that have 2 hour long bus rides (hell, its a half hour ride for the local route as it is!).
Neither side wants to get up at 4am to be on the bus for 5 am to drive around till 7am to start school at 730 (the bus needs to get there at 7 so it has time to get back to town it came from for its next route).

I've been to both schools for various things (our schools are our voting booths among other things) and while ivy drive is centainly nicer, o'connel is far from a shithole. both schools have the bulletin boards of the kids activities, and so on. it's not like 'How High' or whatever that movie was with John Lovitz... lol

At the end of the day, o'connel is the dream mix, is it not? half or so minorities, little less than half whites.
if that's the dream mix, why is it considered to be the 'bad' school?

all of our schools are funded equally based on student population and other things, regardless of district.
all contain roughly the same kids to teacher ratios - some are just physically larger buildings with obviosuly contain more students.

it's just a bad area. the V or Y just to the right of oconnel - that intersection scares the **** out of me. I HATE hitting that red light. driving a bmw, and being a white boy, everyone stares at me like 'GTFO of my hood rich boy'. All i'm doing is passing through (its a state road and high traffic). I always roll my windows up and lock my doors as i drive through this section. too many punks trying to start ****.

near ivy drive, i'd leave my car unlocked parked in the road for hours without even really thinking about it.

sadly, it's nearly 95% of the time 4 or 5 black guys in their late teens/early 20s sporting colors from gangs from cali like they mean something 3500 miles away (HELLO! There are no crips here!), and trying to be 50 cent gang bangers.

sometimes its the Hispanics yelling **** in Spanish that i don't understand and driving around with their latin king crowns on the dash. A hiring manager probably can't either. learn English if you want to work in the US. Being bi-lingual is a GREAT job skill.

and the worst, yes, the worst are the white boys who think they are 'black' and have something to prove.

To who?

How can i feel bad for them?

They HAVE had every opportunity I have had. I went to public schools. My parents were poor as **** growing up. I missed many lunches for simply not having the $1.25 it cost back then to get hot lunch.

But I also never collected food stamps, had a starter jacket, had the latest air jordans, nor was I on welfare.
We probably should have been... but my dad worked his ass off 2 jobs stocking shelves at the grocery store, 19 hour days for many years to support us and wouldn't hear it.

We went on vacation for the first time when i was 10. I saved my allowance of $2 a week (which even back in 1990 was nothing) for 2 years, and had a grand total of $76 to spend while i was down in washington DC for the week.

I spent most of it on astronaut ice cream at the air and space museam gift shoppe.

I learned from an early age that if i want something, i need to save for it, work hard for it (that $2 wasn't handed to me-- it came with a long list of chores)

My point i'm trying to make in this dibacle of thoughts....
Their school isn't bad. it's the people that GO to the school that are bad, don't care, and don't even want to be their in the first place because it doesn't fit into their get rich or die trying idea of life.

At then end of the day, it's not color of skin to blame....
it's parents and rather, the lack thereof of parenting.

1 Reply

@aaronssongs,

Quote:

better representation for issues which are particular to the black community

what is a black community that is different than a white community?

there's a black family 4 houses down from me. is their community different than mine? we live on the same street!

'black community' doesn't exist.
just like, white community doesn't exist. it's just a community.

it's used as an appeasement term for "poor" or "ghetto" or whatever other derrogitory term you can think of.

and why is that? because the white man is holding them back?

no.

its because 98% of them just don't give a **** and WANT to be thug gangsters instead of trying to better themselves.

the same deal goes for white trash trailer park hillbillys. if you don't WANT to be a hillbilly sister-loving stereo type, go the the lybrary, read a damn book, learn something, and better your life and move the F out of the trailer park.

it's really that simple.

I'm sure you will disagree with me... but at the end of the day, if they REALLY wanted to, they'd be able to better their lives, and move in down the street from me, just like the black family that's in there now did.

1 Reply

@briansol,

briansol;40193 wrote:

what is a black community that is different than a white community?

there's a black family 4 houses down from me. is their community different than mine? we live on the same street!

'black community' doesn't exist.
just like, white community doesn't exist. it's just a community.

it's used as an appeasement term for "poor" or "ghetto" or whatever other derrogitory term you can think of.

and why is that? because the white man is holding them back?

no.

its because 98% of them just don't give a **** and WANT to be thug gangsters instead of trying to better themselves.

the same deal goes for white trash trailer park hillbillys. if you don't WANT to be a hillbilly sister-loving stereo type, go the the lybrary, read a damn book, learn something, and better your life and move the F out of the trailer park.

it's really that simple.

I'm sure you will disagree with me... but at the end of the day, if they REALLY wanted to, they'd be able to better their lives, and move in down the street from me, just like the black family that's in there now did.

Silver,
Do you know who you're talking to? What a cheap shot to go after a stereotype. Is that what you really think? 98 % of all blacks are a certain way...thugs?
The black community is different from the white community, in that, positions of power, authority and capital, are held, overwhelmingly, and disproportionately by "whites". White people run things....and then there is Oprah.
But we can't even have a discussion if you are unwilling to admit the obvious.
How can you deny that separate, distinct communities exist apart from one another, connected by kinship, church, school, neighborhoods, tradition, politics, crime and punishment, socio-and economic ties....the list goes on and on. Juneteenth, that is celebrated "Texas-wide" is a celebration particular to the black community, for one. Is that something important to white Texas...I sincerely doubt it...so for you to say there is no black community, or any white community, is disingenuous, at best. You might suggest "you" have no sense of community...but you cannot assume that is true for anyone else.

Let me ask you a question....what is the black family's name? Do you know anyone of them personally. What is their political affiliation? Are they Muslim or Christian? Did you take them over a "welcome-to-the-neighborhood" gift, when they moved in? Have you kicked back a beer or barbeque with them?
My guess is you haven't....which would underscore the separate and distinct divide between "neighborhoods" and "community"....Wow, you have a whole black family living on your street....and you don't know nothing about them.
You make my case. There's no problem...as long as we refuse to see the problem...it's called "denial".

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@aaronssongs,

i'm not silver for the 5th damn time. he's cameron. i'm brian. he lives on the other coast (washington).

my point figure of 98% was referring to that section of my town only. not a globably population or anything like that.

No, i don't know their name.
I JUST moved in here a week and a half ago, and other then my iimmediate neighbor, i haven't met anyone else on the entire street... white, black, brown, yellow, or otherwise.

they were here before me... so by your standard, they should have brought ME a welcome to the neighborhood gift-- which no one did.

so, where is this divide you speak of now?

my street has 6 houses on it. it's a small cul-de-sac.
1 black, 1 polish, and i don't know who else lives where yet because they never seem to leave their houses or go outside.

1/6 ain't a bad ratio if you ask me. that's 16%.

this info is entirely out of date (1970-1990) but it's all i can find on race % of the population.
City of Bristol, CT - Dev. Plans - 2
scroll down to "Figure 2-2. Ethnic and Racial Composition, 1970-1990, City of Bristol, CT"

I'd hazard a guess that the black and especially the hispanic percent have gone up while the white has gone down.

either way, 16% in my neighborhood fully outweighs the city average based on population of race alone.

Anyway, my whole point for bringing them up at all was to make a point that those 98% i spoke of CAN move on and out and up if they wanted to and tried. This guy did it. why can't they? they can if they want to..... but instead, they'ed rather be wanna be gangsters instead of trying to get a good job.

There's a community college 1 town over, which has a bus route to it, and its tuition is almost a joke at how cheap it is. 1 shift at mcdonalds will buy you a 3-credit course for a semester.

Nobody is holding them down but themselves.

0 Replies

GOP Frontrunners Skip Black Debate

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