Talks with Iran

Does everyone reading this post understand what's happened since Obama has taken office? He's offered to talk to Iran twice and they've slapped him down in the worst way. If you don't believe me, let me know and I'll spell out the specifics. For example, take a look at what the mullahs thought of his recent Happy New Year video. The mainstream media doesn't like to report it when he looks bad. He's tried to talk to Iran through Russia and they slapped him down. Not willing to trade missiles in Poland for help on the nuke front. Three strikes on Iran. He's offered to talk to the "moderate" Taliban. No thanks because (surprise!) those who know world history know that Afghans have never accepted foreigners in their country and don't think there's anything to talk about. They shot the retreating Russians in the back as they left their country and castrated Afghans they thought had been "sympathetic" to the Soviets.

I thought the negotiation idea was an interesting one during the campaign but I have to say I didn't expect this to play out in public so soon and so badly. Personally, I think that the rest of the world was afraid of Bush because he was loony enough to attack rather he was right or wrong. Kept the world in line. Now, they smell weakness. They also sense that Obama can barely keep up with problems at home. Maybe it was a good idea in practice, but Russia and the Middle East makes the gritty ghettos of the south side of Chicago look like a playground in a wealthy neighborhood guarded by the secret service.

Fox news is not mainstream enough for you?




Except when they accepted our aid in fighting the soviets.

Actually, I wasn't referring to Fox News. I was referring to the three networks because that's what many people rely on. Fox News often isn't on basis cable. And as for our help with the Soviets, we provided money, weapons, and (perhaps) technical assistance. We didn't stay in their country when the Soviets left. Their objection is to those they view as "occupiers".

85 million households in the U.S. have access to foxnews.

"I thought the negotiation idea was an interesting one during the campaign but I have to say I didn't expect this to play out in public so soon and so badly."

When Bush became president, he wanted to use a different approach to foreign policy than Bill Clinton did (a hard line, anti negotiation approach). He left the Israelis and Palestinians to their own devices and broke off serious negotations with N Korea. But after the mideast conflict blew up and N Korea tested a nuclear weapon, he changed course. During the first years of our war in Iraq, the Bush administration didn't try to negotiate with the insurgents. But during his final years in office, we did, and that's credited with changing the course of the war. Bush didn't negotiate enough as president, but he eventually corrected himself.

"Personally, I think that the rest of the world was afraid of Bush because he was loony enough to attack rather he was right or wrong. Kept the world in line. Now, they smell weakness."

The main difference in foreign policy between Obama and Bush (in the later years) isn't negotiation; it's image. Bush has always tried to play up to his base by alienating his adversaries. He did this both in American politics as well as in his foreign policy. Obama's approach is to try to be as friendly, and to alienate as few ppl, as possible (whether they're American liberals, American conservatives, or Mideast fundamentalist Muslims).

In your mind, Bush's approach is better. I strongly disagree. America's PR problem in the Middle East has never been that we're seen as weak or vulnerable. No nation's foreign policy is going to change dramatically based on whether the American president comes off as friendly or a hard ass. Obama may have gotten "slapped down", but it makes no difference. America's real PR problem is that most Muslims see us as anti Muslim. That's something all our Muslim adversaries (Al Queda, Iran) have been taking advantage of using their propaganda, and it's something Obama might be able to help us with. To negotiate peace deals, you need credibility. To have political power, you need popularity. Reaching out to the Muslim world may give us more popularity and credibility there... even if we're slapped down sometimes.

I find it strange that you're criticizing Obama for not being tough enough. For the moment, lets ignore the fact that we probably wouldn't be able to get Iran to do what we want regardless of who our president is. You've said that Bush kept the world in line out of fear, and i have some questions about that. Was he keeping the world in line when he called Iran part of an axis of evil... and Iran's voters responded by throwing out a reformist, pro western president and electing a hard liner? What about when the Palestinians voted for Hamas and another round of violence erupted during Bush's watch? The evidence shows me that a macho, antagonistic US strengthens (not weakens) the macho and antagonistic elements in the Muslim world.

"He's offered to talk to the "moderate" Taliban. No thanks because (surprise!) those who know world history know that Afghans have never accepted foreigners in their country and don't think there's anything to talk about."

In any Muslim country, most of the people (even fundamentalists) are not interested in global jihad. This is true in Iraq and it's true in Afganistan. The turning point in the Iraq war came when we reached agreements with many of the insurgents we were fighting. By settling our differences with them, we alienated Al Queda in Iraq which made them easier to destroy. Now, naturally, we are considering doing the same thing in Afganistan. Negotiation should always be used as a tool in wars like these. The status quo isn't working, and there's nothing to lose in trying to negotiate.

I agree with that sentiment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with at least trying to negotiate. Might not work but at least you tried.

I agree with much of what NotHereForLong said. Bush made mistakes and corrected himself on some.

He had the sympathy of the world after 9/11 and squandered it. The world could have gone along with invading Afghanistan but the Iraq war was too much.

As long as we support Israel, we will always be seen as antimuslim. The Palestinians will always parade a bloody or dead child before the cameras and an American weapon was always at the other end. The current Israeli govt is probably not a step in the right direction. I don't think we can really do anything to make the muslims happy except for getting rid of the Israelis and then giving them back Palestine.

I think Obama should have been in a position of strength before he started the negotiation strategy and it shouldn't have been in public. The best course is probably one that is between Bush and Obama. Strength and negotiation.

The rest of the world are laughing at us for voting the ASSCLOWN obama into the white house

Nothing could be further from the truth !

And how exactly would you know anyway EMPTY HEAD :lightbulb:

That would be the residual laughter left over from the last eight years. It just hasn't stopped yet. As Tsar Bomba showed us, shockwaves of that magnitude can circle the earth several times before they subside.

Or it could be we're still laughing at you. We'll go with that.

Absolutely clueless.

Question

Do you have a Passport?

I'm gonna guess no. However given all the right-wing murder sprees sparked by the hate speech on the AM waves about "Bamma gonna take yer gunz!", I wouldn't be surprised that he isn't removed from the country without benefit of said passport not too long from now.

"The rest of the world are laughing at us for voting the ASSCLOWN obama into the white house"

It's amazing when someone says something that's the exact opposite of reality. It baffles me when i try to think of what could motivate such a person... is it wishful thinking and denial taken to an extreme, or are they really that stupid?

Here; let me break it down for you. The rest of the developed countries in the world are more liberal than the US so they love Obama. Africans love Obama because he's black and his dad is African. Everyone else (citizens from third world countries that aren't in Africa) likes him and respects his intelligent because he's not Bush.

That's reality. Live with it.

No, not really. Most modern nations were glad obama won. Statistics will back this up. If you doubt this then just ask and i'll show you them.