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Gun Control

 
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 04:45 pm
@Drakej,
Quote:
then should playing cards come with a pic of someone that lost everything? What about bicycles coming with a vid of a kid getting run over? Beer with a pic of a person dying from DWI?


It is diferent you see the purpose of guns is to kill, can you say the same for all these examples?
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 05:29 pm
@markx15,
markx15;13897 wrote:
It is diferent you see the purpose of guns is to kill, can you say the same for all these examples?
I can pretty much use most any instrument to kill. A gun is not a requirement. So you feel knives should come with a pic of a victim from a knife crime? Surely a knife is ment to kill?
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 05:31 pm
@Drakej,
Not directly, it can be used as such, but what other purpose does a gun have if not to kill?
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 05:36 pm
@markx15,
markx15;13901 wrote:
Not directly, it can be used as such, but what other purpose does a gun have if not to kill?
It can be used in the same manner as a gun, for defence or offence. Hence the term, weapon. Nukes are ment only to kill, yet for decades we used them as a deterent against the Soviet Union. How is this possible?
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 05:39 pm
@Drakej,
Knives are meant to cut, it just so happens that cutting can also lead to killing, what are guns made for? Nukes weren't used because both sides knew the effects of a nuke, does everyone know the effects of a gun?
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 05:54 pm
@markx15,
markx15;13903 wrote:
Knives are meant to cut, it just so happens that cutting can also lead to killing, what are guns made for? Nukes weren't used because both sides knew the effects of a nuke, does everyone know the effects of a gun?
All the guns i have IMO are made for protection. What percentage of guns are explicitly used for killing? The ones i have, have never been used for such. Why are you fixated on the object of a gun, it is only a tool. Like a knife or any other object that can be used to kill people. IMO your objectifying it as though it had it's own conscience? The gun itself is not dangerous, it is the perjectile that comes from it that has proved deadly.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 06:12 pm
@Drakej,
I was insisting on why guns deserve special guidance, you said that if we do it for guns, then we should do it for everything that can kill, I then said that it is not necessary, that guns are diferent, because even for protection, it protects because it is made to kill, and in trained hands can do so efficiently. People need to be more responsible in how they use their tools.
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 06:28 pm
@Drakej,
I'm okay with a few gun control laws. If you're an okay person, you'd have nothing to worry about. I don't see why we can't have a bit more gun control. It would probably have some impact on violent crime.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 07:16 pm
@markx15,
markx15;13905 wrote:
I was insisting on why guns deserve special guidance, you said that if we do it for guns, then we should do it for everything that can kill, I then said that it is not necessary, that guns are diferent, because even for protection, it protects because it is made to kill, and in trained hands can do so efficiently. People need to be more responsible in how they use their tools.

Quote:
I was insisting on why guns deserve special guidance,

I think "Every gun should come with a picture of a gun victim on it," is a bit much. Not every gun is used for killing. In fact i think it's quite the opposite?
Quote:
you said that if we do it for guns, then we should do it for everything that can kill,

No i said, "then should playing cards come with a pic of someone that lost everything?" I'm trying to come up with like comparisons for using what you deem worthwhile and applying it to those. You feel ok to call guns special, but if you can justify such an intervention, how can you not justify the rest?
Quote:
I then said that it is not necessary, that guns are diferent,

I fail to see why guns are different? In any case, if this case can be made for you, what is to stop the next person who feels it is neccesary?
Quote:
because even for protection, it protects because it is made to kill,
Just about any object can be made to kill.
Quote:
and in trained hands can do so efficiently.

Untrained can be just as deadly. And is alot less anticipated.
Quote:
People need to be more responsible in how they use their tools

Most people are, it is the rare instance when some psycho runs a muck and uses a gun as an end to his means. IMO you can't blame the tool for the action, you have to blame the person operating the tool in all cases. These things can and will happen in an open and free sociaty. No matter what tool the individual decides to use.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 03:25 am
@Drakej,
Imagine if you did put a picture on every gun, you would have to put it on all of them, not everyone needs it, but how would the seller know who needs it or not?

Quote:
how can you not justify the rest?


Pretty much everything humans invent have a reason, light bulbs give light, shovels dig holes, playing cards to offer an alternative game, but guns either kill, or the threat to kill, which gives protection(what keeps someone from shooting you when you have a gun to their face?), there is a diference to what the tool was made for and what it can be used for.

Quote:
No matter what tool the individual decides to use.


With a knife or similar, how many do you think a pycho can kill before someone stops him? Is it the same for guns? Do you think that if that boy Cho had a knife her would have killed 33? Or is it diferent with a gun?
chuckc cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 05:17 am
@Drakej,
I feel I can only contribute my opinion on this issue. Not solutions.

I agree. Strenuously enforce those laws. I believe individuals who own guns know exactly what they will using them for. Despite the type of crime, gun related or not, individuals will always commit crimes.

So, how can we effectively seperate the malicious intent gun owner from the innocent(?) gun owner?

I do not know. I personally don't care for guns, never shot one. But I do firmly believe gun owners should not be penalized for simply owning a gun. And, yes our Bill of Rights does entitle the American populace to own and possess a gun.

Perhaps changing the focus of gun control to crime control would be benficial.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 08:16 am
@markx15,
markx15;13934 wrote:
Imagine if you did put a picture on every gun, you would have to put it on all of them, not everyone needs it, but how would the seller know who needs it or not?



Pretty much everything humans invent have a reason, light bulbs give light, shovels dig holes, playing cards to offer an alternative game, but guns either kill, or the threat to kill, which gives protection(what keeps someone from shooting you when you have a gun to their face?), there is a diference to what the tool was made for and what it can be used for.



With a knife or similar, how many do you think a pycho can kill before someone stops him? Is it the same for guns? Do you think that if that boy Cho had a knife her would have killed 33? Or is it diferent with a gun?
Quote:
Imagine if you did put a picture on every gun, you would have to put it on all of them, not everyone needs it, but how would the seller know who needs it or not?

Exactly, there would probably have to be a government entity that would police this, probably hire thousands of people and cost millions if not billions of dollars? And that's just for guns?
Quote:

Pretty much everything humans invent have a reason, light bulbs give light, shovels dig holes, playing cards to offer an alternative game, but guns either kill, or the threat to kill, which gives protection(what keeps someone from shooting you when you have a gun to their face?), there is a diference to what the tool was made for and what it can be used for.
What's your opinion of cigarette's?
Just about every thing that is human invented regardless of why it was designed can be used to kill. None of these items have thoughts of murder. A catalyst is needed, that catalyst in civilization usually means it is at the hands of a human. Your emphasis is that a gun is designed to kill, but that is specific to human nature. It only means killing to us. It means being killed to everything else. As we have both agreed, it is just a tool. A tool designed by a people who have an insatiable desire to kill. You fault the gun, i fault the user.
Quote:
With a knife or similar, how many do you think a psycho can kill before someone stops him?
Cho had a couple of guns so lets say my guy has a sword and a knife. If he chained the doors like they said, being similarly unarmed it would be close to the same result. I've seen plenty a sword that would go through a door.
Quote:
Is it the same for guns?

What's the difference between what cho did and the Oklahoma bombings? Should fertilizer come with a pic from a victim of mass murder?
Quote:
Do you think that if that boy Cho had a knife her would have killed 33? Or is it diferent with a gun?

I've seen a guys kill about a thousand men women and children with koolaid. Oh and a Senator and a news crew too. I've seen co-ordinated fanatics kill three thousand people ramming planes into buildings. And before too long i suppose i'll see some one detonate a dirty bomb in some major city of a Western country, so no a gun is no different.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 08:37 am
@Drakej,
Quote:
You fault the gun, i fault the user.


And I agree with you, a gun cannot kill by itself, so how do you pass a mesage to the user? Here is Brazil cigarettes come with pictures of black lungs, deformed babies, and other effects of cigarettes, along with a warning from the minstry of health saying that there is no safe rate of consuming this product.

Quote:
Exactly, there would probably have to be a government entity that would police this, probably hire thousands of people and cost millions if not billions of dollars? And that's just for guns?


I'm talking about some warning, I just said visually, because it is what causes the most impact nowadays. Maybe hand out panflets to every gun store?

Quote:
I've seen a guys kill about a thousand men women and children with koolaid. Oh and a Senator and a news crew too. I've seen co-ordinated fanatics kill three thousand people ramming planes into buildings. And before too long i suppose i'll see some one detonate a dirty bomb in some major city of a Western country, so no a gun is no different


These are all exceptions. And I bet the poison in that koolaid came with a warning, aswell as the fuel in the plane probably had an inflamable picture on it, and bombs also have warning pertaining to what their effects are, if these are deemed necessary, why not for guns?
chuckc cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 09:12 am
@Drakej,
"And I bet the poison in that koolaid came with a warning"

Sorry for intervening, but I think Drnaline referring to the Jonestown massacre.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 09:19 am
@Drakej,
Jonestown massacre?
0 Replies
 
chuckc cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 09:52 am
@Drakej,
A short summary;

The reverend jim jones, not sure of his sect, lead numerous, hundreds, i believe, to the jungles of Guana with the promise of a new life. A new life, communal style, growing your own food, etc. A US Senator conducted a visit to the compound to investigate and correct me if I'm wrong was shot.

Very soon after, The Rev Jim Jones had his followers swallow and give to their children a deadly mix of toxins resembling kool-aid. They drank and soon after died. It was a mass suicide and in some cases homicide. Common news reports shown the corpses of the Rev's followers dead where they stood.

I believe this occured in the 1970s.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 10:06 am
@Drakej,
A bit more: Jones was a counterculture socialist preacher who founded a place called Jonestown in Guyana with socialist values. Suspicion was raised hence the Senator visit. The Senator took a few people who wanted to come with him back to America. At the airport, he, some of the people who left, and several journalists/newspeople were shot. Meanwhile, all followers of Jones had to go to an assembly where they forced poisoned kool-aid into the mouths of their children, injected it into those who would not drink it, and drank it themselves.

Just to expand.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 04:19 pm
@markx15,
markx15;13954 wrote:
And I agree with you, a gun cannot kill by itself, so how do you pass a mesage to the user? Here is Brazil cigarettes come with pictures of black lungs, deformed babies, and other effects of cigarettes, along with a warning from the minstry of health saying that there is no safe rate of consuming this product.



I'm talking about some warning, I just said visually, because it is what causes the most impact nowadays. Maybe hand out panflets to every gun store?



These are all exceptions. And I bet the poison in that koolaid came with a warning, aswell as the fuel in the plane probably had an inflamable picture on it, and bombs also have warning pertaining to what their effects are, if these are deemed necessary, why not for guns?
Quote:
And I agree with you, a gun cannot kill by itself, so how do you pass a mesage to the user? Here is Brazil cigarettes come with pictures of black lungs, deformed babies, and other effects of cigarettes, along with a warning from the minstry of health saying that there is no safe rate of consuming this product.

And has all that stopped the use of tabacco?
Quote:
I'm talking about some warning, I just said visually, because it is what causes the most impact nowadays. Maybe hand out panflets to every gun store?

Maybe a sort of like hunter safety course. They require it of any one wanting to hunt and who is under 18 here in NM.
Quote:
These are all exceptions. And I bet the poison in that koolaid came with a warning, aswell as the fuel in the plane probably had an inflamable picture on it, and bombs also have warning pertaining to what their effects are, if these are deemed necessary, why not for guns?

I guess what bugs me about all this is the warning your talking about all cam from money hungry lawyers who went after big corps to asses blame for some idiot who was too stupid to know he was in way over his head. You know Darwins law.
BTW, that was my reference, of Jim Jones.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 04:25 pm
@Drakej,
Quote:
And has all that stopped the use of tabacco?


Not stopped, but everyone knows the effects of cigarettes, that keeps some away from it. Do you have any proposals as to how to decrease gun related violence? And all violence for that matter?
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2007 04:38 pm
@Drakej,
Quote:
Do you have any proposals as to how to decrease gun related violence? And all violence for that matter?

Yeah, stop trying to rehabilitate habitual criminals.
0 Replies
 
 

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