measuring the true impact on personal freedoms

How can it effect you if you admit you don't know it's effect? How can it be not okay if you don't know?

So, what do you think of rape? No opinion? It's fine because you haven't been raped?

All I am saying is that our civil liberties are being affected by the patriot act, the simple fact that it exists is a problem. Just because it has no direct effect on you does not mean it is okay.

I know of a Middle Eastern man who was imprisoned for years because he was a "suspected terrorist" he was tortured and held without charges or a trial and never spoke to a lawyer, after years of torment he was released after they discovered he had no ties to terrorist organizations. His constitutional rights were denied. His freedom was cast aside. It would not have been legal were it not for the patriot act.

To answer your question, No, I have not personally experienced a "loss of freedom" but others have and more will. I have not personally been abused by the government, but it is absolute folly to legalize govt. abuse and then expect it to never happen. The question you ask is as meaningless as if you had asked "Who here has been raped, do we really need laws against it?" It's foolish because even though it might not have happened to you or I, it has happened to others, and will only escalate with time.

So was this middle eastern man a US citizen?

the constitution applies to non-citizens as well!

I think rape is illegal. That is my opinion. How do you know i haven't been raped?

Our Constitution is only relevent to it's citizens. Period. Only if your visiting legally. Was he visiting legally?

Way to dodge.

not true at all, illegal-immigrants have the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment, they have the right to a fair trial, they have the right to freely express their beliefs and the list goes on....The constitution does not say these rights only apply to americans!

THE US CONSTITUTION AND THE RIGHTS OF NON-CITIZENS

It has been hashed and rehashed how the Patriot Act is unconstitutional I do not understand why you are still bring that up. I am sorry but I still do not understand how reading my mail or your mail or randomly eavesdropping some old lady on the phone after her bridge game is going to catch the bad men. It is just a huge waste of resources. When in your life have you succeeded by randomly running around with no idea what you where doing?

It has been hashed and rehashed how the Patriot Act is unconstitutional I do not understand why you are still bring that up.

It has been hashed and rehashed how the Patriot Act is unconstitutional I do not understand why you are still bring that up. I am sorry but I still do not understand how reading my mail or your mail or randomly eavesdropping some old lady on the phone after her bridge game is going to catch the bad men. It is just a huge waste of resources. When in your life have you succeeded by randomly running around with no idea what you where doing?