@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;46822 wrote:off topic, if you want to talk about the assualt rifle ban start a thread on it
we're talking about the patriot act and post 911 security measures, you are trying to delute my point by referencing obtuse subject matter
that's fear, and now confusion
You did not answer the question. Again.
This thread is about "the true impact on personal freedoms", which happen to include the PATRIOT Act. They also happen to include the aforementioned arms ban.
If you want me to specify "post 9/11" impacts, well that's fine.
Amendment IV:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
This says, most importantly, that you cannot have your person, home, documents or other things you utilize (persons, houses, papers, effects) searched without probable cause (unreasonable search & seizure) AND without a warrant describing EXACTLY what they are looking for and EXACTLY where the are looking for it. (rest of amendment)
The PATRIOT Act removes not only the warrant, but also the need to specify what and where. A tap on your phone requires a warrant because it is one of the effects that is your right to be secure within. Moreso, they can keep this information a "national secret" and not have to tell *YOU* what, why, or where.
That means that they do not need to give a proven reason to hold you. Which leads us to...
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The four words we are looking for here are
due process of law. That says that they cannot hold you (nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property) unless they have a legally justifiable and publically provable reason do to so (due process of law). I know you watch some Law and Order... you see they get pissed when they wanna hold someone, but don't have a legal reason to. Yeah, that's for OUR protection.
Continuing on... So, they haven't given you a reason why you're being held, nor have they actually convicted you of a crime (that requires said "national secret" to become not so secret). So what's next... oh yeah!
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Man, just going down the list! You haven't been told why you've been arrested or why you're going to jail. Number six says they can't do that (and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation). Also, they can hold you for as long as they want violating this one again! (the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial).
One by one, down the list... in order, too! Didn't I say it was a slippery slope.
Now, your turn.
