1
   

Ron Paul: The candidate for the lazy uninvolved American

 
 
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 10:54 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;39660 wrote:
the funny thing is he criticizes Bush's use of executive power but doing what you claim he would do would be way a more controversial use of executive power, and Paul would do it to "limit anti American sentiment"? So Ron Paul, the Candidate who most loudly claims "America First", would change his foreign policy so that other countries would think well of us? This is where I say something about having your cake and eating it too....

I'll say it again, since the restructuring following 911 the FBI and CIA have broken up many terror plots and in conjunction with the War on Terror have kept this country safe. We could be allot worse off then having Iran mad at us. In fact Iran is a brutal dictatorship who's striving to attain nuclear weapons so they can commit genocide against another people, if America is doing the right thing Iran should hate us


The president's job is to oversee the executive branch. Bush is criticized for EXPANDING executive power unConstitutionally, there is a difference.

Paul's foreign policy would not necessarily make nations "like" US, but it would limit their resentment. By staying out of their politics and letting them control their own destiny you drastically cut back the number of people mad at you to the point of wanting to kill your people, this is logical fact. If you don't have as many people trying to kill you, you don't need a large intelligence apartatus. Further, it's not as if Paul would eliminate the CIA's power in one day. Just like any reform, it has to be done over time, and gradually. Again, your ignorance of the man's policies is staggering for somebody so adamently against him.

The CIA and FBI have foiled plots, and where do we get that information? The FBI and CIA, and they have no reason to lie (except for the justification of their multi-billion dollar budgets). I'm sure they have broken up terror plots, but there is a difference between a guy with a make-shift bomb and no plan and 19 hijackers on 4 planes, you and I both know this. Fact is, if I wanted to commit a terrorist act (if one were so inclined), the FBI and CIA could do not a damn thing to stop me. Look at McVeigh, same model, different man, boom. You can't be completely safe, but you can be completely oppressed in the pursuit of that safety. I choose dangerous liberty.

IRAN IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP. You still haven't read their constitution have you? They have an elected president, and elected parliament, and a religious council who oversees the government (which aside from foreign affairs, is largely inactive). They are pursuing nuclear power, and you have no evidence they are pursuing anything else. If they were trying to get nukes, so what? They won't hand over BILLIONS of dollars of research to a terrorist group, and they sure as hell won't attack Israel, a nation capable of retatliating with massive destructive force. If they wanted nukes, they'd want them to keep us OUT. In the history of nuclear weapons, one nation is responsible for 100% of their war deaths. Who might that be? Please do some form of academic research on these topics instead of simply stating that which the administration tells us, because most of your points simply aren't true (I won't presume to call you a liar, because you could simply not know).
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 01:31 am
@Freeman15,
Partial QUOTE: We left Somalia "prematurely", and their civil war did not escalate. In fact, today they have some semblance of government, and fight AGAINST radical Islamists. You have cherry-picked history, the country could go either way. END QUOTE.
I think your history needs updating.
Somalia - Google News

And the History and other info..

Somalia - Google Search
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 01:50 am
@mlurp,
mlurp;39780 wrote:
Partial QUOTE: We left Somalia "prematurely", and their civil war did not escalate. In fact, today they have some semblance of government, and fight AGAINST radical Islamists. You have cherry-picked history, the country could go either way. END QUOTE.
I think your history needs updating.
Somalia - Google News

And the History and other info..

Somalia - Google Search


Nope. I said the war did not escalate, not that it was over, and they DO have a government that controls the northern part of the country. You have to actually do research on a topic in order to understand it.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 02:10 am
@Freeman15,
I think you have to read the entire link to know what is going on. But it isn't important oh so knowledgeable one. Spout your ideas I have to go. Nighty Night.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 10:22 am
@mlurp,
mlurp;39789 wrote:
I think you have to read the entire link to know what is going on. But it isn't important oh so knowledgeable one. Spout your ideas I have to go. Nighty Night.


As I was, the government controls SOUTHERN Somalia. I never said they had a fuctioning government, I said they had some semblance of one. Further, the deal toll is LOWER than in 1993. Peace? No. More Peaceable? Absolutely.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 11:39 am
@Freeman15,
Thank you for putting it that way. I understand now. I ask questions to lean more not to pain another. Again Thanks.
REDWHITEBLUE2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 01:06 pm
@mlurp,
The only way I could vote for Ron Paul is if he gets the Republican nomination Then it would be the lesser of 2 evils vote
I Understand
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 03:32 pm
@REDWHITEBLUE2,
1,100,000 dollars raised this week on the net alone.
xj0hnx
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 05:39 pm
@I Understand,
I Understand;39872 wrote:
1,100,000 dollars raised this week on the net alone.


Yea, it's all those phone spammers, haven't you heard? He doesn't have an real supporters lol.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:24 pm
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;39663 wrote:
IRAN IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP.


Alright so maybe they aren't a dictatorship per say, but they have all the symptoms of a Dictatorship

try opening a Jewish Temple, or sending your daughter to college, or getting a divorce because somebody was unfaithful. Try doing any number of the things we have the god given freedom to do over there and see how you're treated. And Paul wants to be friends with them? nice
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 08:15 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;39884 wrote:
Alright so maybe they aren't a dictatorship per say, but they have all the symptoms of a Dictatorship

try opening a Jewish Temple, or sending your daughter to college, or getting a divorce because somebody was unfaithful. Try doing any number of the things we have the god given freedom to do over there and see how you're treated. And Paul wants to be friends with them? nice


Different cultures. They don't have to be Westernized, and women are allowed to attend university in Iran, though other rights admittedly are restricted.

Jews are allowed to worship in Iran, and Iran boasts the most jews out of any middle eastern state (save Israel), so you're wrong. Have you done ANY research on this country?
0 Replies
 
wvpeach
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 04:50 am
@Silverchild79,
Obviously somebody knows nothing about Iran.

They have synagogues and their own business community to cater to their particular dietary needs . IN fact according to this article three synagogues combined into one because attendance was so low.

For These Folks, Iran's a Land of Milk and Honey | The Jewish Exponent Now many questions can be asked about why is the Jewish community so small in Iran ? Estimated to be at about 100,000 . But really the position the Jews find themselves in in Iran is no different than many other religious faiths have been in time and time again. After all our ancestors came to this country its said to find freedom to practice religion as they chose. And many of them were still persecuted history shows. ( the Salem Witch hunts) were nothing more than ridding themselves of religions they did not like. And if the Jews face racial prejudice on the streets of Iran , how can we condemn them when racial prejudice is still prevalent in this country?


Women go to college in Iran, they become doctors and ministers in the government. And can we complain because divorce is harder to get in Iran? Maybe this country should take a tip from them on that and not allow revolving door divorces.

Women in Iran just like in any other country are the mothers of the children. The fact is most women in Iran agree with their positions because of their religious beliefs. If they had not the women would have raised children by now that changed the mindset of the country.

Iran is a nation that respects people. They just ask to be respected in return. Something the US is bound and determined not to do. I'd say we will drop bombs on them and Russia and China will come to their rescue. So keep pitching your war with Iran sell silverchild. Soon enough its people like you who will plunk us firmly into world war 3



Silverchild79;39884 wrote:
Alright so maybe they aren't a dictatorship per say, but they have all the symptoms of a Dictatorship

try opening a Jewish Temple, or sending your daughter to college, or getting a divorce because somebody was unfaithful. Try doing any number of the things we have the god given freedom to do over there and see how you're treated. And Paul wants to be friends with them? nice
0 Replies
 
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:17 am
@wvpeach,
wvpeach usually agree with you. But knowing the Military and tactics I have to disagree on this. yes it sounds good. But our enemy is not a country (yet) it is groups of disenchanted diaper heads. Who use tactics that defeat our large Military and weapon's advantage. Just like in the Nam.
And what about all the cells already in this country? Waiting orders to attack.

And cutting our overseas bases (I like the idea) has to be done one by one. Some can't be undersized period. Others need to be increased or our troops already assigned there will be in a world of hurt if things get out of hand. And believe me or the Bible things are almost beyond human control.
What Bush and company have done cannot be undone, period! There is no walking away from this situation as it involves more than Iraq, Afghanistan,
Iran. there is Russia, China, N. Korea and several other countries involved against us and the free World. It is just a matter of time. On God's, clock.

wvpeach;39362 wrote:
Really and with our worlds greatest huge military resources you do not think we can protect this country silverchild?

I have heard ron paul speak about protecting our home land and his ideas are much like my own.

Pull our troops out of the hundreds of bases they are stationed at around the world. He would leave very few foreign bases open just enough to have strategic striking distance if we had to go after somebody.

Pull those troops home and station them on the borders , closing the influx of terrorists walking across the border.

Tell the rest of the world that from now on the US will be minding our own business where war is concerned. We plan to remain active in trade with the rest of the world and would respond militarily if a ally needs our help . But we will not be occupying foreign lands anymore.

Round up all illegals in the country and deport them if they do not pass a background check. Make sure we know who comes into this country from now on and deport them if they over stay visa's.

Put most of our navy and our air force guarding our own coasts and leave a few able to help the allies.

Our military is well able under the above circumstances to defend this country from any and all threats from any place in the world .

Ron Paul has some common sense. And his ideas would save billions and billions a year making this country solvent again

Unlike our current president who has left the borders wide open. Started two wars which are bound in a 1/2 generation to have generated many more terrorists who hate the US because they held their mother or father in their arms as they died due to US occupation. And has wasted and depleted our military assets . I swear sometimes I look at what Bush has done and I think he is trying to make sure the country is left like a sitting duck so one of his buddies , communist china perhaps can just walk in here and take us over with barely a shot fired. Oops he will say I had no idea. Or maybe the pan is for China to install Bush as Governor over the US and he will not tell us anything except to shut up or face the penalties . I'm sure he will not hesitate to kill those that give him trouble.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2007 12:36 pm
@mlurp,
mlurp;39932 wrote:

And what about all the cells already in this country? Waiting orders to attack.


There is no united terrorist network commanded by leaders abroad. Terrorist cells act independently of one another and generally have no idea what the other is doing. Fact is, al Qaeda and Osama function as money men and logistical support, they don't command a vast terrorist army like the government would like you to believe.

Quote:

And cutting our overseas bases (I like the idea) has to be done one by one. Some can't be undersized period. Others need to be increased or our troops already assigned there will be in a world of hurt if things get out of hand. And believe me or the Bible things are almost beyond human control.


Remove all forces from overseas bases, close those bases down, and use the military to DEFEND America, not enforce her interests abroad. We originally pursued Pacific and S.American bases as coaling stations for our then steam-powered navy. With the advent of nuclear power, these stations are no longer necessary.

Quote:

What Bush and company have done cannot be undone, period! There is no walking away from this situation as it involves more than Iraq, Afghanistan,
Iran. there is Russia, China, N. Korea and several other countries involved against us and the free World. It is just a matter of time. On God's, clock.


We have nothing to fear from the Russians. One of my professors when I was at UT was (and still is) a Russian policy expert, and during our discussions we concluded that the neo-capitalist nature of the Russian economy coupled with strong Kremlin leadership has and will continue to yield a primarily peaceful, enterprise-oriented society. China's military is overrated and still operates mostly on cold war era tactics and machinery (though they are improving doctrine and equipment annually). You seem to have this dread fascination with the end of times, when in all actuality the US hegemony won't be ended through force of arms, but through superior economics from the PRC and RF.

US hegemony was an ACCIDENT people, it is bound to end. The only reason we enjoyed ten years of unipolarity in the international community was our industrial capacity after WWII relative to the wastelands that were the great powers of Europe and Asia, thus making the US the world's sole producer of economic activity. The Bipolar world during the USSR's tenure on this planet ended, thus yielding a military and economic juggernaut in the United States. However, given Europe's new-found unity and Russia's resurgence as a great power, and of course sloppy, borderline idiotic monetary policy in the US, American hegemony is rapidly coming to an end, especially in the global north. This was BOUND to happen. Our government and culture are not constructed in such a manner as to allow us to be a hegemon for an extended period of time, this is not a bad thing.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 11:06 am
@Freeman15,
Darn they got the wrong person running the country. Freeman15 & Bush would make a great pair. Twice the pride and twice the total lack of control. But Freeman15, does speak better than Bush. But I would tire by the 500 word of a 2,000 word speech to say, "Go back to sleep America your goverment has it all under control." loooooooooooooool

Freeman15;39951 wrote:
There is no united terrorist network commanded by leaders abroad. Terrorist cells act independently of one another and generally have no idea what the other is doing. Fact is, al Qaeda and Osama function as money men and logistical support, they don't command a vast terrorist army like the government would like you to believe.

Who told you there isn't any when every person on TV interviewed says different. mlurp


Remove all forces from overseas bases, close those bases down, and use the military to DEFEND America, not enforce her interests abroad. We originally pursued Pacific and S.American bases as coaling stations for our then steam-powered navy. With the advent of nuclear power, these stations are no longer necessary.

Right like now they serve anothe rmission. mlurp

We have nothing to fear from the Russians. One of my professors when I was at UT was (and still is) a Russian policy expert, and during our discussions we concluded that the neo-capitalist nature of the Russian economy coupled with strong Kremlin leadership has and will continue to yield a primarily peaceful, enterprise-oriented society. China's military is overrated and still operates mostly on cold war era tactics and machinery (though they are improving doctrine and equipment annually). You seem to have this dread fascination with the end of times, when in all actuality the US hegemony won't be ended through force of arms, but through superior economics from the PRC and RF.

Your watching to many cartoons. mlurp

US hegemony was an ACCIDENT people, it is bound to end. The only reason we enjoyed ten years of unipolarity in the international community was our industrial capacity after WWII relative to the wastelands that were the great powers of Europe and Asia, thus making the US the world's sole producer of economic activity. The Bipolar world during the USSR's tenure on this planet ended, thus yielding a military and economic juggernaut in the United States. However, given Europe's new-found unity and Russia's resurgence as a great power, and of course sloppy, borderline idiotic monetary policy in the US, American hegemony is rapidly coming to an end, especially in the global north. This was BOUND to happen. Our government and culture are not constructed in such a manner as to allow us to be a hegemon for an extended period of time, this is not a bad thing.


Thanks for the propaganda. mlurp
scooby-doo cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 11:49 am
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;39358 wrote:
He won't leave us open to attack if he eliminates the motivation for said attack. Stop intervening in other nations' domestic politics, and you'll see s sharp decline in anti-American sentiment.


well said :thumbup:something we agree on :eek:
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 12:45 pm
@scooby-doo cv,
Hummmmm me thinks something smells rotten in Denmark.
What stop all our actions overseas and the diaper heads, malcontents, brainwashed dis contented will forget America. looooooooooooooool
I think your wrong, dead wrong in the long run. But it is just IMHO. Now go ahead put me down it is your turn.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 12:49 pm
@mlurp,
mlurp;40090 wrote:
Darn they got the wrong person running the country. Freeman15 & Bush would make a great pair. Twice the pride and twice the total lack of control. But Freeman15, does speak better than Bush. But I would tire by the 500 word of a 2,000 word speech to say, "Go back to sleep America your goverment has it all under control." loooooooooooooool



Thanks for the propaganda. mlurp


Did you just say NOTHING?

The CIA has told us that international terrorism relies on the "cell" principle. CNN and MSNBC both did a special on it. Groups unrelated to al Qaeda except through name plan terrorist activities and are occasionally financed by al Qeada proper, which consists of several committees and Osama as chief secretary (according to Jamal al-Fadl while in FBI custody). However, no evidence exists of cohesive logistics, plots, supply, or any other measure of organization. They are like a political party, they set policy and deal out money, but do not themselves perform any action. Again, who needs facts anyway?

You never present fact, or legitimately academic political theory, and it gets boring.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 12:54 pm
@Freeman15,
Gee Freeman15, where were you when I posted the same thing. Your spouting and not listening. We agree, but your so wrapped up in Freeman15 that you don't know left from right, up from down. There is that something or do you count that staement as nothing too? It doesn't matter to me your the one showing yourself.
Have A Nice Afternoon...............
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 12:56 pm
@mlurp,
mlurp;40108 wrote:
Hummmmm me thinks something smells rotten in Denmark.
What stop all our actions overseas and the diaper heads, malcontents, brainwashed dis contented will forget America. looooooooooooooool
I think your wrong, dead wrong in the long run. But it is just IMHO. Now go ahead put me down it is your turn.


"Diaper heads" never had a problem with us until the creation of Israel, backed by the US and UK, right in their backyard. Funny how fact and logic get in the way of rhetoric and propaganda huh?
 

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