POTW: Would leaving Iraq incite genocide?

well keep PM'ing me with your POTW requests, this once drew a nice debate!

Next poll is monday

let's here some ideas

I don't need to prove anything to an armchair political debater, why don't you go look it up on wiki or google. I was at a FOB outside of Baqubah, maybe you can go there and round up some of the same actual information we had.



Let me go find the copies of their birth certificates for you, or maybe you can go to IRaq and work with M.I., and Iraq nationals and get some information on that on your own.



What about them? Not much left to identify, so don't ask stupid questions.



They've got oil. Does it ever in the area of the world?



You know what google is, go use it if you can't remember what was going on three years ago.



Obviously.



This isn't an on going war from the 90's, it was a convinent excuse for the Bush administration.

I don't need to prove anything to an armchair political debater, why don't you go look it up on wiki or google.

I was at a FOB outside of Baqubah, maybe you can go there and round up some of the same actual information we had.

Let me go find the copies of their birth certificates for you, or maybe you can go to IRaq and work with M.I., and Iraq nationals and get some information on that on your own.

What about them? Not much left to identify, so don't ask stupid questions.

They've got oil. Does it ever in the area of the world?

You know what google is, go use it if you can't remember what was going on three years ago.

This isn't an on going war from the 90's, it was a convinent excuse for the Bush administration.

How about exactly what you just mentioned in that thread about global warming. Is it wrong for us to be at war with basically, the middle east, while still consuming more fossil fuel than any other nation on Earth...

First, I am not even going to bother debating things I have learned through experiance, that can't be proven on the interent.

I, nor the guys I fought with were there fighting for oil, as a matter of fact, most of us volunteered for Afghanistan (where there is actually an enemy), and were going to be transfered until our unit got officially called to Iraq, which the bulk of us thought was a sham from the beginning. As soldiers, we obeyed our orders and performed our duties, yes, puppets for the Bush administration. You'd be surprised how well informed a small specialized attachment is concerning the big picture. The whole problem with us fighting in Iraq is, we aren't fighting Iraq, we are supposedly fighting terrorism. Terrorism is not an enemy that can be tracked down, it has no face, it has no border, it has no army to speak of, no particular funding, do you really think that fighting like we did in WWII is going to yield anything? Back then we could put a face to it, find it on a map, destroy it's assets, the enemy was tangible. If you hadn't noticed, organizations that seek to destroy of are GAINING momentum in the region, doesn't this set off any alarms with you that we might not be on the right track?

I drive my Honda because it is efficient, I gave back a Jeep because it sucked down gas like a like a crack whore hits the pipe. Reserves are fine, we can get them without being dependent on foriegn oil. The problem is that multinational corporations, spend billions to make sure that Americans stay on the nipple. Everyone likes to sight the intial cost as a good reason to not convert to better energy sources, which is absolute BS when compared to the monumental benefits we would reap. Greed disguised a patriotism is still greed. While I wouldn't nescessarily want to get rid of my Honda, and thanks to the overwhelming need America has to be dependent on other countries, I don't have too, but I would if it were beneficial. In otherwords, no, I would not start a war just so I could drive my Honda.

As far as the struggling democracy, it is destined for two paths, it will either succeed through brute force, and it will become just what it replaced, or it will crumble. Democracy is so far beyond the mentality in that area of the world it isn't even funny. If we are going to have a part in it succeeding the correct way, simply flexing our military muscle, and fixing a few public utilities is not going to be it. We aren't going to simply transform centuries of violence by waving our flag and pointing our guns, our foreign policy is horrible.

Let me ask you this, how do you think this country would be, if Baptist, protestants, methodist, luthrans, mormons and Catholics all routinely killed each other in a struggle for power? If we had no real infrastructure, no support for citizens, pretty much organized anarchy on an civilian level? and had been that way basically since it's inception? Do you think that what we call democracy would have a chance at surviving?

First, I am not even going to bother debating things I have learned through experiance, that can't be proven on the interent.

I, nor the guys I fought with were there fighting for oil,

As soldiers, we obeyed our orders and performed our duties, yes, puppets for the Bush administration.

The whole problem with us fighting in Iraq is, we aren't fighting Iraq, we are supposedly fighting terrorism.

Terrorism is not an enemy that can be tracked down, it has no face, it has no border, it has no army to speak of, no particular funding, do you really think that fighting like we did in WWII is going to yield anything?

If you hadn't noticed, organizations that seek to destroy of are GAINING momentum in the region, doesn't this set off any alarms with you that we might not be on the right track?

I drive my Honda because it is efficient, I gave back a Jeep because it sucked down gas like a like a crack whore hits the pipe. Reserves are fine, we can get them without being dependent on foriegn oil.

The problem is that multinational corporations, spend billions to make sure that Americans stay on the nipple.

Everyone likes to sight the intial cost as a good reason to not convert to better energy sources, which is absolute BS when compared to the monumental benefits we would reap.

While I wouldn't nescessarily want to get rid of my Honda, and thanks to the overwhelming need America has to be dependent on other countries, I don't have too, but I would if it were beneficial. In otherwords, no, I would not start a war just so I could drive my Honda.

How much are you willing to pay to be able to drive your Honda? You do know that if you didn't like to drive so much we probably wouldn't be fighting over there. And making that statement isn't an admitence that the US is fighting for oil. The US is fighting for the stability of a world market of oil. Of which it has the largest stake in. If you'd like to argue otherwise please back up your claim?

Coming from a military back ground i would assume you understand the concept of a strategic oil reserve? And understand the ramifications of disturbing such a thing?

Been attacked by anything other then an illegal immigrant in the US lately?

So, um, what is it, are we fighting for oil, or not?



Seriously guy, you are a dolt. Can you really not comprehend that the reference to the mexican border is a grade A example of why our borders, policies regarding them, and therefore our country are in fact, not secure? It truely baffles the mind that that concept has totally able to elude you. Or, you're just playing ignorant because it destroys any arguement you have about Bush actually making America more secure.

Bush actually making America more secure.

Seen an attack within our borders in the last four years?

You mean besides the six we caught planning the attack on Ft. Dix? How many more are there plotting more carefully maybe this time?

After US forces left Vietnam millions were killed in the Laos/Cambodia/Vietnam area during a horrific power vacuum

Since the fall of Saddam, a similar vacuum exists in Iraq. The Shia majority spent 30 years as second class citizens under the Bathists who are a part of the minority Sunni faction. Many of them now want revenge.

If we leave, will genocide occur?

I say again, seen a terrorist attack in this country in the last four years? Simple question but for you not a simple answer?

It's simple because you are wrong. Our borders are not secure, and that's proven fact.

Still beating around the perverbial Bush(pun intended)?
Answer the question? Not answering it makes you look even worse? Come on you can do it!

Whether there have been attacks, foiled attacks, or not, doesn't change the FACT that our borders are not secure.

Answer the question? You made the statement about security now back it up. Have you seen an attack on these United States since 9/11?

My statement about security is backed up in the fullest by the millions of illegal immigrants in this country. Why don't you come up with a reason that it is secure, oh, you can't, because it's not. But hey keep clinging to the line "where are the attacks if it is so unsecure" because when they come back and bite you in the ass, I am going to laugh in your face.

because when they come back and bite you in the ass, I am going to laugh in your face.

My reason will follow your answer.
If i'm lucky it will be under a democrat and i'll laugh with you.

Or, we can get soneone in the white house that cares about America and will do something about it, instead of not to get the minority vote.

The President cares about America deeply and is trying to do something about it.
Imagine you accusing republicans of pandering to the minority vorte when it is the Democrats that do everything they can to line up the minority votes so they can have power over them.