POTW: Would leaving Iraq incite genocide?

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After US forces left Vietnam millions were killed in the Laos/Cambodia/Vietnam area during a horrific power vacuum

Since the fall of Saddam, a similar vacuum exists in Iraq. The Shia majority spent 30 years as second class citizens under the Bathists who are a part of the minority Sunni faction. Many of them now want revenge.

If we leave, will genocide occur?

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@Silverchild79,

leaving is the worst possible thing we can do right now, and I DON'T support the war.
leaving on a set date is retarded.
we're pot-commited, and we must stay in the hand through the river.

</poker reference>

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@Silverchild79,

Genocide is happening now and will only increase if we leave too soon.
I also believe that it will return after some indeterminate period no matter when we leave. That region has had over 1,000 years of it.

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@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;15406 wrote:

Genocide is happening now and will only increase if we leave too soon.
I also believe that it will return after some indeterminate period no matter when we leave. That region has had over 1,000 years of it.

that does make sense on allot of levels. The only real way to prevent returning is to not leave...

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@Silverchild79,

I think yes. I don't think leaving is what needs to happen, i think some tactics could be changed. All in all if we just up and leave at the time, there will be a mass mudering of some sort.you can count on that. However, There needs to be more pressure put on the Iraqi government to get a military/police force built up and trained so they are not so dependent on us. I know this has been an issue already, but they need to understand the seriousnous of the matter. If they fail to hold up thier end of the bargain......Then i don't know. I guess, Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will never go hungry. I think they might turn into America addicts if we don't encourage the Government to produce a more self reliant national protection. But to do that there needs to be some sort of reprocussion. Even if or when they do, I don't think we should leave them right away. Think of it as a drug rehabilitation, Americas help being the drug. We need to be sure they have a self reliant force and slowly ween them off of a reliance of us. I don't know if any of this came out like i want it too. We can't leave them up and up and we can't stay there forever, there needs to be a stern median.

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@Silverchild79,

Most sensible scenarios being offered include some form of phased withdrawal along with a large number of forces and advisors remaining in Iraq for about 8-10 years at least.
The success of any action there will depend on the advancements in training and commitment of the Iraqi governmentand the Iraqi troops.

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@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;15410 wrote:

The success of any action there will depend on the advancements in training and commitment of the Iraqi governmentand the Iraqi troops.

This is my main thing, the whole dependency thing. How can we help them if they won't help themselves? We need to help them, it is the right thing to do. But we can't do all of the work and let them sit back and wait. We have to find a way somehow to boost thier confidence that we will help them as long as they help themselves. If they fail to help themselves....what should we do?

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@Silverchild79,

Go to cent.com for info about how things are really going.

For example -

Quote:

Iraqis Can Move Forward as Surge Takes Hold, General Says

By Gerry J. Gilmore
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, May 7, 2007 – Eighty percent of the U.S. military units involved with the surge of troops into Baghdad and western Iraq are now in place, a senior U.S. military officer said in Baghdad yesterday.
“Four of the five American reinforcement brigades are now in Iraq,” Army Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, spokesman for Multinational Force Iraq, told journalists during a media roundtable.

An additional U.S. brigade is slated to arrive by June 1, Caldwell said.

Operation Enforcing the Law was launched in mid-February to secure in Baghdad and western Iraq and tamp down violence in those areas.

The operation is to provide the fledgling Iraqi government with breathing room to resolve pressing political issues such as Sunni-Shiite reconciliation, de-Baathification, constitutional reforms, and an oil-revenue-sharing program that includes all Iraqis.

“Once security is improved, the Iraqi people will be able to move forward,” Caldwell said.

The surge also buys time for further development of Iraq’s armed forces and police, “so that they can assume responsibility for protecting themselves,” Caldwell said.

Iraqi-on-Iraqi sectarian violence has decreased since the operation began, U.S. officials have noted. Yet, continued terrorist attacks staged by al Qaeda and other insurgents make the security situation in Iraq “complex and challenging,” Caldwell acknowledged.

1 Reply

@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;15413 wrote:

Go to cent.com for info about how things are really going.

For example -

in comparison, America has a few hundred if not more american on american violence everyday. You might remember a few weeks to a month ago there were like 11 or 12 violent deaths in three days here in houston alone. I don't know, with the way things are turning i feel as if we are not focusing enough on the violence her in america, and i understand that violence could escalate if the fanatic religious gangs came over here to kill. I think i may have got off subject and forgotten my point......oh They seem to be getting better, and as time progresses i'm sure if we keep the pressure on them to not depend on us as much things will be controllable, there is going to be a large number of violence there regardless, just like there is here. Maybe that was the point.

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@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;15406 wrote:

Genocide is happening now and will only increase if we leave too soon.
I also believe that it will return after some indeterminate period no matter when we leave. That region has had over 1,000 years of it.

Perhaps it should be genocide by the government(s) then?

I think we should partition Iraq into Kurdistan and states for the Sunnis and Shia with limited connection w/ representatives of each in Baghdad but not as a single government. There couldn't be that much genocide then.

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@Silverchild79,

Personally, I could care less if they all kill themselves. The middle east is just a vessel for US corporate policy. No really cares if they would kill themsleves. I don't remember hearing any "OMG we have to go back to Vietman to punish the evildoers!!!" when we left and the wholesale slaughter business really started booming, Why? Because no one really cared. After seeing first hand the unbelievable volume of wasteful spending going on there, if we left tomorrow we'd be better off.

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@Silverchild79,

Quote:

I don't remember hearing any "OMG we have to go back to Vietman to punish the evildoers!!!"

The evil doers were John Scarry, and Hanoi Jane, both citizens of the US and a good percentage of the lib democrat party. Hard to go back there when the evil that happened over there was caused here!

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@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;15457 wrote:

Perhaps it should be genocide by the government(s) then?

I think we should partition Iraq into Kurdistan and states for the Sunnis and Shia with limited connection w/ representatives of each in Baghdad but not as a single government. There couldn't be that much genocide then.

Great idea but Saudi Arabia is funding the Sunni, and it has stated that it will continue to fund that side until basically Wahhabi Islam is enforced. Iran is funding the Shite sect. If other countries would mind their damn business Iraq would stand a chance. Will their be mass genocide yessssssssssss.

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@Silverchild79,

Oh, well, withold their oil money if they take the funding.

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@Silverchild79,

You have to speak to the UN about that, if there is any money left?

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@Silverchild79,

Still got oil, still have to have money.

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@Silverchild79,

Genocide will escalate, but it will escalate the same if we stay.

The only difference our continued presence brings is American bodies in addition to Iraqi bodies.

There must be an Iraqi leader who the people follow because they want to,
or because he's so bloody he's able to do whatever it takes to bring peace.
Neither of those will/can from a government handpicked by us.

We're not giving the Iraqi's democracy and self-determination... if we did
they'd probably align themselves with Iran or Al Qaeda, so we're occupying
the country. Al Qaeda wanted us bogged down in a situation like this, and
Bush did them a favor by invading Iraq, after the world got behind us in
Afghanistan (which we've also allowed to shift direction into a quagmire).

There is no potential "win" for the U.S., and that's the result of the administration
sitting down at the checkerboard shy of a few marbles.

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@Silverchild79,

Quote:

Genocide will escalate, but it will escalate the same if we stay.

The only difference our continued presence brings is American bodies in addition to Iraqi bodies.

Prove it? Lookin at the world through lib colored glasses don't make it so. I find it hard to believe you would rather fight them here instead of there? I presume you think all the terrorists are gonna stay in Iraq after we leave? Or are they gonna follow and kill more American soldiers? Except maybe next time instead of killing Iraqi citizens along with our soldiers there will get to kill American citizens who knows maybe one of them will be you.

1 Reply

@Drnaline,

Drnaline;15699 wrote:

Prove it? Lookin at the world through lib colored glasses don't make it so. I find it hard to believe (1) you would rather fight them here instead of there? I presume you think all the terrorists are gonna stay in Iraq after we leave? (2) Or are they gonna follow and kill more American soldiers? (3)Except maybe next time instead of killing Iraqi citizens along with our soldiers there will get to kill American citizens who knows maybe one of them will be you.

(1) That is the stupidest line of crap people throw around nowadays. Congratulations on the brainwashing, it took well. We aren't "fighting terrorist" in Iraq, I know, I was there.

(2) They don't have to follow, we can just stay where we are and US Soldiers can continue to die.

(3) Iraqis didn't attack us in the first place. Did you already forget that Iraq is just a fishing expedition to make Bushs private interest rich? Iraq did not attack the US. We are more likely to bring future violence onto Americans by STAYING in Iraq.

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@Silverchild79,

the problem with your statements, 92b16vx, is that we aren't fighting Iraqi's. That is the biggest brainwash of them all

we're fighting Al Qaeda, in Iraq. They are terrorists, it can't be said that they aren't

and death tolls? 4 years later and we haven't lost enough men to constitute 1 bad year in Vietnam. This country is spineless

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POTW: Would leaving Iraq incite genocide?

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