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JESUS Was MUSLIM !

 
 
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2008 12:41 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63109 wrote:
[SIZE="3"]Then I consider you withdrawing from the debate.

Nevertheless, I will continue presenting my scientific evidences for the interested readers.[/SIZE]



"We (Allah) will show them (the disbeliefers) Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?" [The Noble Quran 41:53]


Consider what you want,...I will be back.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2008 04:24 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63109 wrote:
[SIZE="3"]Then I consider you withdrawing from the debate.

Nevertheless, I will continue presenting my scientific evidences for the interested readers.[/SIZE]



"We (Allah) will show them (the disbeliefers) Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?" [The Noble Quran 41:53]


You have a very liberal definition of what constitutes "Evidence".Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2008 04:25 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;63112 wrote:
Consider what you want,...I will be back.


Don't worry numpty, we will save a place for you when you get back.
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2008 05:04 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;63112 wrote:
Consider what you want,...I will be back.


You can have a fun/joke 'atheist' debate with FF when you are back (whenever that will be!).

But concerning our debate, it's over. You could not stand the simple challenge and therefore you chose to quit very soon.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Dec, 2008 10:14 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63118 wrote:
You could not stand the simple challenge and therefore you chose to quit very soon.


It doesn't sound like he chose anything. But if you wish to throw low blows, while he isn't here to respond that says a lot about your character.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 09:40 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;62861 wrote:
Scientific and rational rules. No debate about the existence of God (The Creator) without such rules. I do not want you just to throw your personal opinions out of the air and consider them evidences for your points. Those who refuse using the scientici/rational rules/approach got no confidence in their beliefs and in their knowledge!

It's sarcastric to ask atheists (whom supposedly believe in SCIENTIFIC PROOFS only) for a debate about God (or anything else) using the scientific approach and they refuse the scientific rules/approach!


Show me direct scientific evidence for a deity. Until you can show DIRECT evidence that your deity exists, the rest of your argument from a scientific perspective falls flat. Your foundation must be solid before you build upon it.

No quotes from religious texts, no "well this MUST be true if..." arguments. Direct, observable evidence... meaning you must provide a test that will directly show the existence of this being. This test must be reproduceable AND falsifiable and it must DIRECTLY show this being. This is, of course, the scientific approach.

C'mon Sword... I've apparently chased off the other creationists... let's play.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 04:28 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63124 wrote:
Show me direct scientific evidence for a deity. Until you can show DIRECT evidence that your deity exists, the rest of your argument from a scientific perspective falls flat. Your foundation must be solid before you build upon it.

No quotes from religious texts, no "well this MUST be true if..." arguments. Direct, observable evidence... meaning you must provide a test that will directly show the existence of this being. This test must be reproduceable AND falsifiable and it must DIRECTLY show this being. This is, of course, the scientific approach.

C'mon Sword... I've apparently chased off the other creationists... let's play.


I am not a game player and we are not here to play games (if you didn't notice that yet!).

However, let me ask you this simple question to see if you are not bluffing:

[SIZE="3"]Do you have a 'soul' ?[/SIZE]
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 05:08 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63134 wrote:
I am not a game player and we are not here to play games (if you didn't notice that yet!).

However, let me ask you this simple question to see if you are not bluffing:

[SIZE="3"]Do you have a 'soul' ?[/SIZE]


The soul cannot be shown to scientifically exist. No tests or "proof" can be brought forth to validate the existence of such a thing.

Therefore, no.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 06:49 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63136 wrote:
The soul cannot be shown to scientifically exist. No tests or "proof" can be brought forth to validate the existence of such a thing.

Therefore, no.


What keeps your body alive?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 06:58 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63137 wrote:
What keeps your body alive?


The same thing that keeps all living things alive, oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, etc..

Do you think it's a soul that keeps sea algae alive?
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 07:45 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63137 wrote:
What keeps your body alive?


Oxygen, a decent amount of nourishment and the blood that sends both through my body. A warm temperature is usually desired.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 07:58 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63140 wrote:
Oxygen, a decent amount of nourishment and the blood that sends both through my body. A warm temperature is usually desired.


Those can do no benefit without something to make your body use them. What makes your heart beat without stopping till you die to circulate the blood? what makes your lungs operate to use the oxygen?

Try to fill your brand new car with fuel, oil, water and then wait for it to start!!

Even your car needs something to energize it so it can use the fuel, the oil, water etc.. to send live in it. That is the battery (energy in the form of electricity).

You can die without any cause despite that you have enough oxygen, enough amount of nourishment and the blood that sends through your body!

What keeps your body alive and energizes it to use oxygen, nourishment, and the blood in your body?
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 09:22 pm
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63142 wrote:
Those can do no benefit without something to make your body use them. What makes your heart beat without stopping till you die to circulate the blood? what makes your lungs operate to use the oxygen?

Try to fill your brand new car with fuel, oil, water and then wait for it to start!!

Even your car needs something to energize it so it can use the fuel, the oil, water etc.. to send live in it. That is the battery (energy in the form of electricity).

You can die without any cause despite that you have enough oxygen, enough amount of nourishment and the blood that sends through your body!

What keeps your body alive and energizes it to use oxygen, nourishment, and the blood in your body?


What keeps my heart firing? Electrical pulses from my brain telling it to do so. The same for breathing.

Your car analogy is also flawed (everyone has a car analogy) because you're trying to "make" something alive at that point. You're asking me to wait for it to start, where in reality, the engine is never off. It's built running. You give it fuel and oil in order to keep it running. The only time it cuts off is when it's dirt nap time.

However you've dodged my question. You're trying to rely on the unknown and not the known. That's not scientific evidence. That's not even scientific. That's philosophy. I want to see the scientific evidence, the direct evidence for this deity. "I don't know" is not evidence for a deity.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 12:05 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63144 wrote:


However you've dodged my question. You're trying to rely on the unknown and not the known. That's not scientific evidence. That's not even scientific. That's philosophy. I want to see the scientific evidence, the direct evidence for this deity. "I don't know" is not evidence for a deity.


First, I want from you the scientific evidence for the source of live that energizes your body and keeps it alive and functioning! If you can not show me a scientific evidence concerning your own body then, by simple logic, don't ask your question.

You can hear about many persons who die suddenly without any medical cause and no matter what the doctors try to do to save them (to return them back to live by the very advanced medical means and technology) they fail! This means that there is something beyond measured/controlled physical quantities that keeps our bodies alive and when it leaves our bodies we die.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 01:09 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63146 wrote:
First, I want from you the scientific evidence for the source of live that energizes your body and keeps it alive and functioning! If you can not show me a scientific evidence concerning your own body then, by simple logic, don't ask your question.


I make no such claim. In fact, it is you that somehow believes there's some mystical force "energizing" our bodies. So in that respect, it's up to you to show this evidence.

If it's evidence of the electrical pulses causing my heartbeat, well that's easy.

Quote:
You can hear about many persons who die suddenly without any medical cause and no matter what the doctors try to do to save them (to return them back to live by the very advanced medical means and technology) they fail! This means that there is something beyond measured/controlled physical quantities that keeps our bodies alive and when it leaves our bodies we die.


We do? Really? Then you can show us a few of these "mystery deaths". Can you also show direct evidence of this "force" leaving the body? You are again relying on the unknown... I think you are finding it impossible to base your argument on any physical evidence.

Your scientific argument is collapsing. Now again, direct evidence of this deity you speak of.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:21 am
@SWORD of GOD,
SWORD of GOD;63142 wrote:
Those can do no benefit without something to make your body use them. What makes your heart beat without stopping till you die to circulate the blood? what makes your lungs operate to use the oxygen?

Try to fill your brand new car with fuel, oil, water and then wait for it to start!!

Even your car needs something to energize it so it can use the fuel, the oil, water etc.. to send live in it. That is the battery (energy in the form of electricity).

You can die without any cause despite that you have enough oxygen, enough amount of nourishment and the blood that sends through your body!

What keeps your body alive and energizes it to use oxygen, nourishment, and the blood in your body?


Except our bodies were never MADE ALIVE, we were always alive, even the sperm and egg are considered alive. It's not as if we were a bag of blood and then struck by lightning and brought into life. Anything that's not alive can't be made alive, which is the reason death is permanent. You're whole argument is based on ignorance, an argument from ignorance fallacy.

The "We don't know why, so (this) must be the reason" will never cease to be a flawed argument.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 05:30 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;63148 wrote:
I make no such claim. In fact, it is you that somehow believes there's some mystical force "energizing" our bodies. So in that respect, it's up to you to show this evidence.

If it's evidence of the electrical pulses causing my heartbeat, well that's easy.



We do? Really? Then you can show us a few of these "mystery deaths". Can you also show direct evidence of this "force" leaving the body? You are again relying on the unknown... I think you are finding it impossible to base your argument on any physical evidence.

Your scientific argument is collapsing. Now again, direct evidence of this deity you speak of.


Quote:
We do? Really? Then you can show us a few of these "mystery deaths".


It seems you are not living in this world.


Quote:
Your scientific argument is collapsing.


It is very easy for anyone to say: 'Your scientific argument is collapsing' without even trying to use any well-established scientific reasoning or evidences or logic to refute any of my arguments.

When you understand and you are able to deal with scientific evidences and facts then I will spend my time to argue with you. But arguing with someone who doesn't understand the scientific proving metholodgy is a waste of time.

If you couldn't notice yet, I have used well-established scientific facts (not theories) in my debate with Numpty in proving that this Book, the Quran, could not be authored by man, rather a greater source had to have been the author of this Book. And I am willing to continue presenting more evidences.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 07:07 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;63150 wrote:
Except our bodies were never MADE ALIVE, we were always alive, even the sperm and egg are considered alive. It's not as if we were a bag of blood and then struck by lightning and brought into life. Anything that's not alive can't be made alive, which is the reason death is permanent. You're whole argument is based on ignorance, an argument from ignorance fallacy.

The "We don't know why, so (this) must be the reason" will never cease to be a flawed argument.


Ahem...:p
0 Replies
 
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 12:47 am
@Numpty,
[SIZE="2"]The Scientific Evidences in Proving the Existence of Allah (God) continue[/SIZE]


[SIZE="3"]# 5: The Quran on the Cerebrum:[/SIZE]

ALLAH (God) has said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) from praying at the Kaaba :


"No! If he does not stop, We (Allah) will take him by the naseyah (front of the head), a lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)!"
[The Noble Quran, 96:15-16]


Why did the Quran describe the front of the head as being lying and sinful? Why didn’t the Quran say that the person was lying and sinful? What is the relationship between the front of the head and lying and sinfulness?

If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum (see figure 1). What does physiology tell us about the function of this area? A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area, “The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex...”1 Also the book says, “In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression....”2.

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-d-img1.jpg
Figure 1: Functional regions of the left hemisphere of the cerebral cortex. The prefrontal area is located at the front of the cerebral cortex. (Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology, Seeley and others, p. 210.)



So, this area of the cerebrum is responsible for planning, judgment, motivating, and initiating good and sinful behavior and is responsible for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. Thus, it is proper to describe the front of the head as lying and sinful when someone lies or commits a sin, as the Quran has said, “...A lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)!”

Scientists have only discovered these functions of the prefrontal area in the last sixty years.


:lightbulb:

Once again, how did the author of the Quran know this scientific fact?

Perhaps the author of the Quran was a genius or a scientist. Well, I don't think that could be a possibility, becuase no matter how smart you are, you'll never be able to discover the brain functional neuroanatomy, unless you possesed these modern scientific technology/capabilities which did not exist 1400 years ago, so those could not be a possibility. Perhaps the scientific fact is observable. Well, this is not true either, because Scientists have only discovered these functions of the prefrontal area in the last sixty years.

Finally, perhaps it was a very good guess. Well, it is a possibility. The brain is divided into many areas each resposible for a certain function, i.e., vision, auditory, memory, taste, etc..Let us say there are a minimum of 6 main areas. If it was a good guess then we'll say it was a 1/6 chance, one sixth chance if that was the case - or coincidence, we can look at it that way. Therefore, the chances that this guess will be correct is 16.66% (1 out of 6) i.e. 1/6.



References:

(1) Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology, Seeley and others, p. 211. Also see The Human Nervous System, Noback and others, pp. 410-411.

(2) Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology, Seeley and others, p. 211.
SWORD of GOD
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 09:02 am
@SWORD of GOD,
Let me pause here before I continue presenting more evidences proving the existence of Allah (God) and let me summarize and update the probability of all the presented five guesses.


I have already presented to you 5 cases and they're:

# 1: Quran on Bee’s role in nature: (the chances that this guess will be correct is 1/2).

# 2: The Quran on the Origin of the Universe: (the chances that this guess will be correct is 1/1000).

# 3: Quran on The Lowest Area on Earth: (the chances that this guess will be correct is 1/2000).


# 4: Quran States The Sun & The Moon Run on a Fixed Course (Orbits) : (the chances that this guess will be correct is 1/9).

# 5: The Quran on the Cerebrum: (the chances that this guess will be correct is 1/6)

In all of them I presented well-established modern scientific FACTS to support my cases.

[SIZE="3"]
The probability of all the already presnted five guesses being all correct is 1/2 x 1/1000 x 1/2000 x 1/9 x 1/6 = 1/216000000 which is equal to 0.000000005 (or 0.0000005%) ![/SIZE]
 

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