Fundalmentalism and Dogma

What you believe is interesting, but if you attach probabality to your theory then what the bible prohpicise's is in fact 'bound to happen' at some point.

Think about it, Jews will return to Isreal and then on to Jerusalem, given they way in which human history has developed is in not easy to predict that at some point in time from the putting together the bible, in the next 1700 years that the jews will return to jerusalem?

C'mon man think of something with a bit more accuracy.

I predict in the Next 2000 years that Britain will once again occupy France.
Now given the previous 1000 years of history betwen the two nations, that is a pretty safe bet.

Where does it state the destruction of America.

Plus many scientists believe the global warming is infact a prelude to a new ice age.

Does the bible say asteriods?

If the chinese have had little to no contact with the bible, why would they rise up and decsend up Isreal.

The word asteroiod was not coined until many years after the Bible describe one. Revelation 8:8 The second angle sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, and a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

It may be that control for middle East Oil will be an incentive for the Chinese. Yet that is just speculation on my part. According to the Bible Islamic nations will target Jerusalem. You can read about the coming war, in Ezekiel chapters 36, 37, 38, and 39. That is in the Old Testament.

hummmmmm i shall pray for all of you if that is alright with each.

The Bible clearly teachs that we should not murder, and Christ points out that murders will not enter God's Kingdom. Now there maybe people who put men to death for their ideas, yet these men are not Christians reguardless of who's name they claim the right to murder in. The Christian faith is much different than the Moslem faith. Christians are not slaves to the law, but operate out of the freedom of grace which is light years from the Taliban.
Also the Bible is far from backwards thinking. It's cutting edge prophecies tell you of what is soon going to happen in the world we live in. The Jews are not back in Israel by accident, and the Bible tells us what will happen to Israel and the world in the last days. The Bible tells mankind what God desires of us, yet mankind has set his own path.

Ok,..bearing in mind that in your opinion God can do pretty much as he wants, I am pretty sure the his ability to move a mountain was well with in the realms of possibility by the men that wrote the bible. they need not know of out side asteriods to be able to plot that stoyline. When a mountain is raised in the air and you see it, guess what it be comes something like a huge mountain.

Erm,..Isreal as far as I am aware has very little hold on Oil, that belongs to Saudis and Iraq's, if they were to invade that area, Isreal would be left alone.

who is the second angel?

Oh yeah you did not mention America

This one is for Mr.Campbell34. Sir, would you classify this edict from Deutoronomy as murder? Please do respond as I am trying to learn about your faith.

" If you hear that in one of the towns which Yahweh your God has given you for a home, there are men, scoundrels from your own stock, who have let their fellow-citizens astray, saying "Let us go and serve other gods," hitherto unknown to you, it is your duty to look into the matter, examine it, and inquire most carefully. If it is proved and comfirmed that such a hateful thing has taken place among you, you must put the inhabitants of that town to the sword; you must lay it under the curse of destruction - the town and everything in it. You must pile up all its loot in the public square and burn the town and all its loot, offering it all to Yahweh your God. It is to be a ruin for all time and never rebuilt". (Deuteronomy 13:12-16).

Murder is killing without cause. If God came to me and I knew this was the Creator of the Universe, and if I knew He created me, and He gave me a reason to put another to death, and I knew that reason was true, I would do what my Creator told me to do.

Its no longer a question of "if " Mr.Campbell. No "if God came to me".

You have here in Deutoronomy, a direct and clear instruction from God. it is not ambiguious and there can be no question of doubt. You need not seek any expert opinion. Deutoronomy is telling you to kill unbelievers and torch their possessions.

So either you believe in the Bible and prepare to kill me or you do not believe in the Bible and refrain from the act of killiing this unbeliever. What is it to be?

Well if we lived back in the time of Deutoronomy and you were one of those unbelievers God told me to kill, I would. And it would not be murder because murder is killing without cause. In this case, I would be doing what the Creator of the Universe told me to do. And God never has anyone do such a thing, unless there is a very good reason for it. When you get to know God, you understand that everything He tells you to do is for the good. And sometimes you don't see it that way, but I got to tell you, God sure has a way about getting His believers to do the right thing. I recall going with a woman 30 years ago before I met my wife. I was going to ask her to marry me, but this woman forgot to tell me she was all ready engaged to this 23 year old guy and soon became his third wife. I wrote her a letter and told her what I though about her when I found out. Would you believe, Just this year God forced me to apologize to her. God has good reasons for doing what He does even if we don't understand them.

Well if we lived back in the time of Deutoronomy and you were one of those unbelievers God told me to kill, I would. And it would not be murder because murder is killing without cause. In this case, I would be doing what the Creator of the Universe told me to do. And God never has anyone do such a thing, unless there is a very good reason for it. When you get to know God, you understand that everything He tells you to do is for the good. And sometimes you don't see it that way, but I got to tell you, God sure has a way about getting His believers to do the right thing. I recall going with a woman 30 years ago before I met my wife. I was going to ask her to marry me, but this woman forgot to tell me she was all ready engaged to this 23 year old guy and soon became his third wife. I wrote her a letter and told her what I though about her when I found out. Would you believe, Just this year God forced me to apologize to her. God has good reasons for doing what He does even if we don't understand them.

Mr.Campbell, so are you saying that Deutoronomy is no longer relevant? Because you say you'd kill me if we lived back in the time of Deutoronomy.

I take it then, that you won't kill me now because you feel that Deutoronomy is not relevant in today's world.

You and I Sir, are in perfect agreement then. We have had a meeting of the minds on the fact that the Bible is not relevant in today's world.

But do feel free to retract what you said and we can continue the discussion.

Many of the stories given in the Old Testament were given to show that trying to serve God by the law alone was impossible. These stories were given to us for examples, and they show us the weakness of a life based only on a law. Now today Christians donot put their hope of eternal salvation on the Law, but rather on the finished work of Jesus Christ. And because some of the stories of the Old Testament now are but examples, this in no way makes the entire Old Testament not relevant. The Bible tells us all Scripture is to be used for instruction. The Old Testament is still necessary especially when one considers the prophecies that still remain, and are in the process of being fulfilled. Of course to say that the Bible is not relevant in todays world would require one to be totally ignorant of those prophecies. You must also remember, the Old Testament is the Old Covenant, and the New testament is the New Covenant which Christians now follow.

Well if we lived back in the time of Deutoronomy and you were one of those unbelievers God told me to kill, I would. And it would not be murder because murder is killing without cause. In this case, I would be doing what the Creator of the Universe told me to do. And God never has anyone do such a thing, unless there is a very good reason for it. When you get to know God, you understand that everything He tells you to do is for the good. And sometimes you don't see it that way, but I got to tell you, God sure has a way about getting His believers to do the right thing. I recall going with a woman 30 years ago before I met my wife. I was going to ask her to marry me, but this woman forgot to tell me she was all ready engaged to this 23 year old guy and soon became his third wife. I wrote her a letter and told her what I though about her when I found out. Would you believe, Just this year God forced me to apologize to her. God has good reasons for doing what He does even if we don't understand them.

God forced you to apologise? Ol' Gods seems to be somewhat of a meglomaniac.

As you said something LIKE a mountain of burning fire. When a piece of fiction is written, the writer is given artistic license to expand and exaggerate to the story they are telling. They may not know of Asteriods but you can bet yer bottom dollar they have heard of ,or seen Volcanoes spewing out lava and burning rocks into the atmosphere. How easy is it then to exaggerate that knowledge to something LIKE the size of a mountain.

Your Prophecies can be accounted for using probability that an event will at some point occur. It's the same with Nostradamus, hundreds of prophicies fullfilled because people attach similaraities to generic propersitions. It is the same with the bible, I appreciate you think Nostradamus is as big a nut as i do, but the same can be said of what is written in the bible.

Yes you can rationalize away or stretch a story anyway you like, but John who is telling the story is saying he saw something the size of a mountain strike the sea with such force that is destroyed one third of the marine life, and a third of the ships in that sea. And of course your take is that John is just another liar, who is fabricating a falsehood. And of course you have to believe that, because to believe anything else might just put you in harms way spiritually.
I believe John, and I believe he is speaking the truth, and I believe all the prophecies of the Bible. The problem the non believers are having with these prophecies are they mirror what is happening in the world today. And because so many of these prophecies are so detailed, the arguement for probability becomes almost laughable. And Nostradamus is nothing more than a Jonny come lately, many of his prophecies are based on Biblical accounts and what he did not get from the Bible, he tried to get from occult practices.
Most of the writers of the Bible died for what they believed in, and I doubt any of them would of died for artistic license.