Fundalmentalism and Dogma

@Ann cv,

Campbell, I'll be dogging you until you respond to my challenge about a debate. Either yes or no. Until then you appear a coward.

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@Ann cv,

Removed by mlurp

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@Ann cv,

Have you been boozing it up again Otis?

Your post was a bit unintelligible.

Sober up and get back to me.

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@Ann cv,

Well written Mr. Campbell. I thought I was sending a personal letter to Numpty and didn't know that it was being posted. I still stand by my thesis that the Bible was written by ancient men who believed the Earth was flat and that mental disorders were caused by evil spirits. I could site proof of this, but will not do so at this time because of lack of time and space. I also believe in rightous living and good works. I can understand why some people don't wish to send their children to public schools. I wouldn't want my children to assoicate very much with children who use drugs and street language. On the other hand, public education is a qualified success. I am a product of public education. So is my cousin who is a retired university professor and Sunday school teacher. The speech pathologist whom I dedicated my book to is also a "victim" of the public education system. I am enjoying my debate with you Mr. Campbell, and hope that others will join us.

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@Ann cv,

Sorry. when I corrected a misspelled word it was reposted in the wrong place. It should hace been posted under Mr. Campbell reply to my post under fundamentalism.

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@thomascrosthwaite,

thomascrosthwaite;40769 wrote:

Well written Mr. Campbell. I thought I was sending a personal letter to Numpty and didn't know that it was being posted. I still stand by my thesis that the Bible was written by ancient men who believed the Earth was flat and that mental disorders were caused by evil spirits. I could site proof of this, but will not do so at this time because of lack of time and space. I also believe in rightous living and good works. I can understand why some people don't wish to send their children to public schools. I wouldn't want my children to assoicate very much with children who use drugs and street language. On the other hand, public education is a qualified success. I am a product of public education. So is my cousin who is a retired university professor and Sunday school teacher. The speech pathologist whom I dedicated my book to is also a "victim" of the public education system. I am enjoying my debate with you Mr. Campbell, and hope that others will join us.

Well it would be a mistake to believe that the Bible teaches that the world was flat. Often you will see where some will point out that the Bible states that God sat upon the circle of the earth, and they will draw from the wording that the writers of the Bible must of thought the earth was flat. Actually the Hebrew word used is Khoog which in its masculine form means sphere. Also the Bible states that not only is the earth a sphere, but in Job:7 it states. "God hangs the earth on nothing". Now other ancient cultures believed that the earth was held up by a man named Atlas, or it was supported by four elephants, or even a turtle swimming in a sea of milk. Yet if they really wanted to know the truth, they would of needed to read the Bible. The Bible is filled with facts few have considered. The first asteroid was discovered by Giuseppe Piazzi on January 1, 1801. Yet the Bible speaks of an asteroid in the book of Revelation chapter 8 verse 5. And the book of Revelation was written about 1700 years before Giuseppe Piazzi's discovery.
The Bible is also filled with prophecies that are happening in our own time. According to the Scriptures near the end of time, God would allow the Jews to return to the land of Israel, they would retake Jerusalem, and at the same time Jerusalems East Gate would remain sealed until Christ returned and opened it Himself. The Bible also tells us, all attempts to open the Gate would fail. There has been two attempts to open the Gate and both attempts failed just as the Bible said they would. If the Bible was written by simply ancient men, then it would be hard to understand how they could of known all of these things, unless someone was directing them.

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@Campbell34,

Campbell34, well stated and soooooooo true. All many see in the Bible is reason to doubt. But things are getting closer to that day when all human effort will fail to control events of the day. And then Israel will get it long sought after "security and peace on our boarders" isn't it great to be alive in these days.

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@mlurp,

mlurp;40858 wrote:

Campbell34, well stated and soooooooo true. All many see in the Bible is reason to doubt. But things are getting closer to that day when all human effort will fail to control events of the day. And then Israel will get it long sought after "security and peace on our boarders" isn't it great to be alive in these days.

Amen mlurp, it's just that everyone has been sold a bill of goods about the Bible, and there is such a lack of faith today, that few believe in it anymore.
Yet if people would only give Christ half a chance, He would touch their lives as He has touched ours. He is a God of wonder, and I could never imagine life without Him.

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@Campbell34,

Campbell34;40870 wrote:

Amen mlurp, it's just that everyone has been sold a bill of goods about the Bible, and there is such a lack of faith today, that few believe in it anymore.
Yet if people would only give Christ half a chance, He would touch their lives as He has touched ours. He is a God of wonder, and I could never imagine life without Him.

No, what's been sold is a bill of goods that someone can dictate policy for everyone else...you, and others like you, feel that they have been designated "by God", to inform others of their "lack of faith", their "non-adherence" to the Bible, "what" the Bible "actually" says, and how people should conduct their lives according to "your interpretation" of the Bible.
Not only is that arrogance in the extreme, it is unsolicited advice.....as you, and others like you, have no special "insider information" concerning God's plan for each and every one of us....we are all on different paths...please, allow us to put our own foot (however maligned) in front of the other, "unassisted" by you.
Contrary to your belief, I have a powerful relationship with God...and He informs me "daily", that I, clearly, am on the path I'm supposed to be on....and he said not to listen to you. Did you get that?

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@Ann cv,

Mr.Campbell, I am truly sorry that people call you an idiot. You are not. Let me assure you that you are one of the smartest people I have never ran into in my life, and you are a pleasure to debate with. It is indeed tragic that you have been so brainwashed. As I have told you I was raised in a fundamentalist church and have read or heard all of these arugments. But the truth is they just do not stand up. Not only is there no hard evidence to support the truth of the Bible, but the antidotal evidence will not hold water either. Ancient people believed that the Earth was flat, and rested on pillows and that the sky was circle in shape. There are about twenty references to the corners of the Earth, the foundation of the Earth and the pillows of the Earth throughout the Bible. The contridictions in the Bible are too numerous to even mention. A book could be written about them

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@Ann cv,

Mr. Campbell, I did a little reseach on your assertion that the writers of the Bible knew all about asteriods which are very large meteorites. There are believe to be around 500 meteorites that reach the surface of the Earth each year. Most of them range in size frrom marbles to basketballs. There are no documentted accounts them killing either animals or humans. It is true that some sciencest have advanced the theory that a large asteriod wriped out the dinosaur population millions of years ago, but this is speculation. The Biblical referance that you quated ot of context, "Then the angel took the censor, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the Earth. And there were noises thunderings, lightings and an earthquake" only shows the desperation of fundalmentalists, who have paid sciencest large sums of money to supports them and have even allegeablely tried to disrupt paleontological exuviations. Not only do they want their own schools, but have tried to dictate, with some success, what can be taught in public schools. My book, "I Thought That I would Never Make It Through The 4th Grade is available from all major internet outlets."

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@thomascrosthwaite,

thomascrosthwaite;41048 wrote:

Mr. Campbell, I did a little reseach on your assertion that the writers of the Bible knew all about asteriods which are very large meteorites. There are believe to be around 500 meteorites that reach the surface of the Earth each year. Most of them range in size frrom marbles to basketballs. There are no documentted accounts them killing either animals or humans. It is true that some sciencest have advanced the theory that a large asteriod wriped out the dinosaur population millions of years ago, but this is speculation. The Biblical referance that you quated ot of context, "Then the angel took the censor, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the Earth. And there were noises thunderings, lightings and an earthquake" only shows the desperation of fundalmentalists, who have paid sciencest large sums of money to supports them and have even allegeablely tried to disrupt paleontological exuviations. Not only do they want their own schools, but have tried to dictate, with some success, what can be taught in public schools. My book, "I Thought That I would Never Make It Through The 4th Grade is available from all major internet outlets."

I'm sorry about that, I ment to say Revelation Chapter 8, verses 8 and 9.

8. And the second angel sounded, and as it were a GREAT MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE was cast into the sea: And a third part of the sea became blood; 9. And a third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

There are now a number of scientist who are warning us of just such an event. And some are now tracking asteriods that are the size of mountains. And these same scientist are telling us that some of them will pass so close to earth in the next 20 to 30 years, that they cannot predict for sure if they will miss us, or hit us. I find the timing of this very interesting, because according to the prophecy, this event would take place sometime after the Jews had returned to the land of Israel and had taken control of Jerusalem.
Another words, this major event in human history would have to take place some time after 1967. Which of course is when the Jews marched into Jerusalem. And now just 30 years after that, scientist are now waring us about a real possibility of an asteriod striking the earth. WOW.

And again, how could these simple men speak about an asteriod the size of a mountain, when there was no knowledge of such a thing at that time? Especially when one considers that the world would not know about asteriods for at least another 1700 years. And beyond that, how could they accurately predict the effects one might have, if it were to strike the sea?

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@Ann cv,

Mr.Campbell thanks for correcting youself. If such an event should occur it will be a natural phenomenon, not a supernatual one. Also, you have taken this verse out of context. In order to get an idea of what is being said you need to read, begaining in Rev.8.5 and read all the way through chapter 9. You should note that the things described here are wildly imaginary. I do hope that more people will add to this dialogue. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author

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@thomascrosthwaite,

thomascrosthwaite;41153 wrote:

Mr.Campbell thanks for correcting youself. If such an event should occur it will be a natural phenomenon, not a supernatual one. Also, you have taken this verse out of context. In order to get an idea of what is being said you need to read, begaining in Rev.8.5 and read all the way through chapter 9. You should note that the things described here are wildly imaginary. I do hope that more people will add to this dialogue. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author

I suppose it is easy for one to say it is imaginary, yet all of the prophecies that have been fulfilled in the Bible, have been fufilled literally. Many years ago people use to believe that the idea of the Jews returning to Israel and retaking Jerusalem was imaginary as well. Yet today, we know this is exactly what has happened. And in the Bible, it tells us that Jerusalems Old East Gate would have a Porch Gate built on to it, and that Porch Gate would be sealed
up. In just recent years they have discovered that Jerusalems Old East Gate is still intact but it is buried. And it is now the foundation of a Porch Gate that was built on to it by none believers in the Bible. And the Bible tells us, all attempts to open that Gate would fail. And the Bible also tells us that the Gate would only be opened when Christ returns. The Moslems found out about the prophecy, and twice in the last century tried to open the Gate but failed, just as the Bible told us they would. What may apper to be imaginary to you, is only imaginary, because you don't believe. And if an astroid should strike us, and even if it was a natural phenomenon. It would still require a God to reveal to simple people that one, such a thing does exist, two, explaining the effects of such an event, and three, giving them the general time when this event will occure..

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@Campbell34,

Campbell34;40870 wrote:

Amen mlurp, it's just that everyone has been sold a bill of goods about the Bible, and there is such a lack of faith today, that few believe in it anymore.
Yet if people would only give Christ half a chance, He would touch their lives as He has touched ours. He is a God of wonder, and I could never imagine life without Him.

But isn't it suppose to be that way near the end. Faith becomes a world wide ONE faith. Who's I know not. Mine is grounded so all I can do is pray.
Somwill return to the fold so we welcome that. But even jesus, said " the way is broad and many will follow it." Free will of choice. I'm for it.
later.

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@thomascrosthwaite,

thomascrosthwaite;41153 wrote:

Mr.Campbell thanks for correcting youself. If such an event should occur it will be a natural phenomenon, not a supernatual one. Also, you have taken this verse out of context. In order to get an idea of what is being said you need to read, begaining in Rev.8.5 and read all the way through chapter 9. You should note that the things described here are wildly imaginary. I do hope that more people will add to this dialogue. Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author

I don't want to disrupt your ongoing debate with Mr. Campbell, but I believe God, uses nature to bring about His, will. Or that is the image I get from reading the Bible. Not all the time just when He, decides to get involved. If you read the Bible you could come to the same conculsion. I won't quote chapters or verses. If your interrested you read it and decide for yourself.
Enjoy the day. And thank you for your time on this.

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@thomascrosthwaite,

thomascrosthwaite;40671 wrote:

Hi Numpty,
I am a 71 year old man whith a severe congenital speech impediment, learning disabilities, and A.D.H.D. I was also raised in a fundalmentalist church, Church of Christ to be exact. Campell is the crazist religious nut I have yet to run into. His account of his exorcism is really way out. Cambell is a dangerous man because he is intelligent and "educated". He even knows that atoms have three components and he gave the best explaintion of the trinty that I have ever heard or read. He is part of a movement that fails to recognize that ignorance, poverty, and disease are the enemy of the human race and not "Harvardism" "Yaleism" and "Princetonism". How foolish. In the event that you would like to order my book, "I Thought That I Would Never Make 4th Grade" it is available from all major internet outlets. You might also like to visit my website at Learning,Speech,&Attention Defects | Man with learning disabilities, communication disorders, ADHD, becomes author. I would be glad to hear from you
Best of wishes,
Thomas Crosthwaite U.S.A
[email][email protected][/email]

Hello Thomas,
It would appear that you have had a very interesting and somewhat hard life given your disabilities. I like your site, there is some very good stuff on there, you are an insperation to people who suffer great torment for these types of diabilities.This question is off topic, but for me relevent to this Debate. Do you attribute your ability to accept and overcome your disability and indeed ultimately help other people with the same or similar dissabilities to your own through personal grit and determantion, together with a steadfast mind set that you can lead a 'normal', succesfull and fullfiling life. Or is it 'God' that enabled and helped you to succeed. As i see it, every single person has the ability to achieve what they want through their own will and endeavor, no outside influence is needed, certainly not from some mysterious diety.

I myself attribute my success in life through my own determination to succeed, by successful I Interpert this to being married, having a beautiful wife and daughter, owning a couple of houses and having a reasonably well paid job, all achieved by my own efforts, not through a deity.

I find religion to be for people with little self estem and are easily lead who have difficulty in believing they can do things for themslves and that there is a reason for everything, there isn't.

The fact we are learing more and more about the world and universe we live in through science, I live in wonderment at the scale of the universe and all the mesmersing and wonderful things we learn about it on a daily basis . The bible and Qu'ran can not possibley hope to equip us with this kind of knowledge, with their outdated dogmatic views of the world, especially the views afforded to women, homosexuals and those who generally do not believe what they do.

Anyways, time i was gone, i bid you farewell and hope to read your reply soon, once again, much respect to you Thomas.

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@Numpty,

Numpty, I am very happy to see you pointed out this is just your opinion. I believe in what you don't and have enough self esteem and am humble enough to give thanks for my best efforts and my failures. Asking in prayer to become more like the man Christ would like me to be. I have friend who don't believe or are same sex (females) and happy with it. I don't preach to anyone and question pastors on more than once on their sermons or beliefs. The church any of them are businesses, ask about any Church secretary if honest they will agree.
But faith isn't a Church and is personnel between me and Christ.
And I find Campbell very much correct as wvpeach to mention just 2 of our members. yet I also disagree with them on some of their ideas and positions.
But I would hope because I believe in something you don't doesn't mean we can't share ideas or not become friends. See I don't judge people as you have of someone like myself. Doing so wouldn't be worth my salt being light in dark places. And I guess on this we will have to wait till our time comes to pass from this life to know for sure whom is correct on this subject. But do have a nice day.
Hope none are upset I continued of topic to respond. If so I am sorry and ask tha tinthis to over look it.

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@mlurp,

To get back on topic I wonder (and agree that science has shown us a lot) way they still can't explain what caused the Big bang? Anyone care to answer this?

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@mlurp,

mlurp;41539 wrote:

To get back on topic I wonder (and agree that science has shown us a lot) way they still can't explain what caused the Big bang? Anyone care to answer this?

Well I would suggest investigating and therefore understanding the science involved in the Big Bang theory is very much still in its infancy.

Up until Darwin it was basically given that pretty much 100% of peope believed in some form of Deity, which one is irrelent. Once his theory of evolution was understood and accepted by a lot of the scientific world other sciences devolped, explored and questioned whether the world was made in 6 days and therefore by a Deity.

Now your nexr question will be: But they are theories, how do you know?

Well the Theory of Relativity, although a theroy is still accepted as fact by the scientific world. No person has been able to prove Einstien wrong on this, correct.

Although they are theories, they are built upon solid investigating, challenging ideas, testing and retesting, stretching the science as far as it is phyisically possible with the technology we have at our dispossal, exploring all avenues to a conclusion. Ultimately if the science says 'Actually eveything was made by a Deity' then cool so be it, at least it has been proved. As yet everything that i have seen, read, and experienced leads me to believe there is not an all powerfull supernatural being that created us.

As for the Big Bang, well actual investigating is probably know more than 75 years old, verses books that are between 1700-1300 years olds, with there ideas ingrained in society and the beliefs held together with no other proof other than the scriptures are the words of God/ Allah, no proof, no investigating, no challenging the ideas. A closed book that is lived by, fought and killed for and with such backward and Medievil thinking that if you take the meaning literally, we would still be stoning people, rape would be aceptable and anyone with an opposing view, ie the Big Bang theory would be also killed as heretics.

There are a Billion Billion stars in this universe, are you saying a Deity who made man in his own image created it all as it was and for ever how it should be, i think this idea is far more fantastical than the big bang theory.

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