Fundalmentalism and Dogma

At the moment, with the rise of fundamentalism, it almost feels as if the world is going in exactly the opposite direcion and that dogmas and literal interpretations of not only Christianity, but other religions too are becoming entrenched. (This is all caused by fear of change and ignorance)


Do you agree with this statement?

Ann

Which Thomas, brings us nicely back on topic.

As we have seen throughout history the single biggest opponent to science has been Religion. Why?

Fear of the unknown, fear that everything they believe can be taken from them, through investigating and challegning the ideas and what is given as fact. The ability to expand ones knowledge without fear of reprisal is a modern day phenomenon.

If Fundamentalists had there way, the exciting and potentially revolutionary genenome (probably spelt wrong) therapy would be banned and those practising it, imprisoned or even murdered. My Father-in-law suffers from the early stages of Alzheimers, he is only 63 years old. This new science has the ablity to potentially cure him, but also stop it from ever happening in the first place. If any of you know or have witnessed Alzheimers you will know what a devestating disease it is, not only to the individual but also the family, as the person you once knew dissapears a little each day into someone you no longer recognise, and they eventually no longer recognise you.

It is heart breaking, but what if we as a species could overcome this, could stop the mind from deteriorating, could truely map the genes and cure all afflictions to man. Would this be a miricale? Sanctioned by A Deity. some religious people would say 'Well God/ Allah gave man the abillity to achieve this'. But NO and i mean NO, because the churches and mosques and those that dwell in them hate anything that means there Chosen deity appears less miraculous and the boundries whithin which their beliefs become smaller and smaller. Simply put, if and when it happens it will be inspite of religion and their Deities not because of them.

In answer to the ladies question,......Yes.

It's kind of funny, I think if Fundamantalist had their way, there would be a lot of evidence that has been hidden by science that might finally see the light of day. The very thing you accuse religion of doing, I see science doing as well. Maybe science is fearful that evidence might upset their Evolution God.

Campbell,

You may well be right, only time will tell, I for one look forward to finding out one day. But 'Evolution God', now that's a somewhat weird statement, for me the two cannot occupy the same sentence, in the context in which you imply.

However I blatently laid at your door accusations of murdering and imprisoning scientists for carrying out work that could potentially prove there are no Deities.Also stating that the stoning of people, rape and the killing of your fellow man as heretics for not believing as you do. Yet none of these do you deny would happen if we lived in a completely Fundamentalist society. In esscence, society would be exactly the same as Afganistan under the Taliban. From what i have read you pray for this to be true one day.

This is what truely disturbs me about religion, books written by men, hundreds of years ago, with such sexsist, homo-phobic backward thinking ideas are gleefully preached to children in churches/ mosques as how best to live ones life. In an age when we strive to bring equality to all, we are far from where we need to be of course, your views and those of the people who think as you do are truely teriffying.

The Bible clearly teachs that we should not murder, and Christ points out that murders will not enter God's Kingdom. Now there maybe people who put men to death for their ideas, yet these men are not Christians reguardless of who's name they claim the right to murder in. The Christian faith is much different than the Moslem faith. Christians are not slaves to the law, but operate out of the freedom of grace which is light years from the Taliban.
Also the Bible is far from backwards thinking. It's cutting edge prophecies tell you of what is soon going to happen in the world we live in. The Jews are not back in Israel by accident, and the Bible tells us what will happen to Israel and the world in the last days. The Bible tells mankind what God desires of us, yet mankind has set his own path.

Fundamentalist Christians offer absolutely no difference to the Taliban. Have you actually read the bible, not the words but the meaning behind them? If you did, really read them, from start to finish, you would be shocked at how violent the Christian God is. If you say he and Jesus are the same entity then what is written in the Old testement is still about the same Entity in the New Testement.

Plus I seem to remember in a couple of passages in the New Testemant that Jesus says it is ok to keep slaves and actually advocates the doing of this.

Do you also subscribe to this idea?

Well I would suggest investigating and therefore understanding the science involved in the Big Bang theory is very much still in its infancy.

Up until Darwin it was basically given that pretty much 100% of peope believed in some form of Deity, which one is irrelent. Once his theory of evolution was understood and accepted by a lot of the scientific world other sciences devolped, explored and questioned whether the world was made in 6 days and therefore by a Deity.

Now your nexr question will be: But they are theories, how do you know?

Well the Theory of Relativity, although a theroy is still accepted as fact by the scientific world. No person has been able to prove Einstien wrong on this, correct.

Although they are theories, they are built upon solid investigating, challenging ideas, testing and retesting, stretching the science as far as it is phyisically possible with the technology we have at our dispossal, exploring all avenues to a conclusion. Ultimately if the science says 'Actually eveything was made by a Deity' then cool so be it, at least it has been proved. As yet everything that i have seen, read, and experienced leads me to believe there is not an all powerfull supernatural being that created us.

As for the Big Bang, well actual investigating is probably know more than 75 years old, verses books that are between 1700-1300 years olds, with there ideas ingrained in society and the beliefs held together with no other proof other than the scriptures are the words of God/ Allah, no proof, no investigating, no challenging the ideas. A closed book that is lived by, fought and killed for and with such backward and Medievil thinking that if you take the meaning literally, we would still be stoning people, rape would be aceptable and anyone with an opposing view, ie the Big Bang theory would be also killed as heretics.

There are a Billion Billion stars in this universe, are you saying a Deity who made man in his own image created it all as it was and for ever how it should be, i think this idea is far more fantastical than the big bang theory.

You mean they have another THEORY, period. As they themselves say!

First you never heard me say that. If I have I am sorry.
Second the scientist themselves say it is a theory. That simple. They say that for many of the ideas they present. It is our theory.

Numpty we have the tecnology, but do we have the necessary values to apply that tecnology in "safe" manner? We are joining parts of the world which would be best left alone. We join together cultures and ideologies that in essence wish to destroy the other. I think that before we look into tecnologies capable of doing even greater damage than the ones we already posses we should first develop a sense of global responsability to apply this knowledge in a "safe" fashion.

I can subscribe to that idea, hey I never said science was perfect, just that it has the potential to help us achieve our goals.

Unfortunately they majority of WMD and those sciences that have the ability to cause great harm are in the hands of predominantly Religious nations. When a Deity is the guiding light in the majority of decissions and the religious books they aspire to, demand that their god is the only god, all others are false and their followers are to be killed as heretics or infidels, then for me this is the greatest threat, not the science itself.

The Bible tells us that the last War on earth will be fought over the control of Jerusalem. How could those who wrote the Bible thousands of years, how could they of possibily of known that? And how could they of known that near the end of time the Jews would return to Israel, and by force retake Jerusalem? And how could they of known that Jerusalems East Gate would have another Gate built on to it by non believers in the Bible, and that Gate would be sealed up until the Prince to come would open it at the end of days?
The Bible and it's prophecies of truth are God's fingerprint. None of the other world religions have this kind of proof. And how could they? For only the true God, knows the future.

What you believe is interesting, but if you attach probabality to your theory then what the bible prohpicise's is in fact 'bound to happen' at some point.

Think about it, Jews will return to Isreal and then on to Jerusalem, given they way in which human history has developed is in not easy to predict that at some point in time from the putting together the bible, in the next 1700 years that the jews will return to jerusalem?

C'mon man think of something with a bit more accuracy.

I predict in the Next 2000 years that Britain will once again occupy France.
Now given the previous 1000 years of history betwen the two nations, that is a pretty safe bet.

Mr. Campbell, there is no proof. No one living today ever saw Jesus, saw his miricles, or witnessed any of the things that are in the Bible. Would you buy a used car, just because someone told you that it had a motor in it? If you walked into a courtroom with the kind of evidence you mention you would be laught at. The Mormons have a much better arugement. How was an illiterate farm boy able to write the "Book of Mormons", without devine help? The Bible as we know it today didn't come into being until almost 100 years after the birth of Christ, and not even then in the from that we have it today. In 382 A.D. Pope Damasus assembled the !st Council of Rome and commissioned St Jerome to produce a reliable and consisent text by translating the original Greek and Hebrew texts. How many text were rejected by the early Catholic Church, we do not know. There are about 50 gospels that are known to have been found. Only four of these are included today these four are somewhat consisent. Also, the early Catholic Church tried to consollidate the essence of the Christian faith in the "Apostles' Creed", which is written in highly literary language. In spite of all of this, some parts of the Bible are powerfully written, while other parts are repetitious and more or less contradictory. A good example of this is the following: IN Gensis 32:30 Jacob stated,"For I have seen God face to face. Then in John 1:18 John states, 'That no man has seen God at any time." I have already written how the Bible reflects the beliefs od ancient people, i.e. that the Earth is flat and that mental illness are caused by evil spirits. However, the Bible is an important book. It is widely read and tells us what early people believed, how they lived, and their writing abilities.