If you lived in Israel...

You are mixing two very different issues in your question. Of course I would support reasonable efforts to stop terrorism.

However, there is no way that any sane or humane person would support Israel's policies toward Palestine

The actions of the Israeli government go far beyond what any civilized society would do. They continue to expand the settlements. They execute rash assassinations with no regard to the lives of civilians. They condemn people to poverty with closures that have no purpose except to punish the general population.

The fence is a sham. If it were a rational reaction to terrorism it would follow the 1967 green line and show regard for the innocent civilians who are affected. The very route of the fence shows that it is just a cynical land grab designed to change the political facts on the ground.

If the Israeli government wanted peace there would be peace. The solution is obvious. Israel must give Palestine a viable state and economic opportunity. This means that Israel must withdraw the settlements. In return Palestine must guarantee the security of Israel. This includes giving up the right of return.

Unfortunately the two sides are resorting to equally barbaric tactics to prolong this bloody process. Either Israel or the Palestinians have the ability to bring about peace. The people in power on both sides seem to benefit from the violence..

Brave people in Israel are opposing the Israeli government They have figured out that Israel's policies will never lead to the end of this cycle of violence.

The policies of the Israeli government and in particular the Sharon adminstration are the best way to ensure that terrorists attacks will continue.

I support Israel. IF America was experiencing what Israel is going thru I would want America to bomb, bomb, bomb the perpertrators. I would not in any way accept attacks to this country by terrorists.

Ruash,

You are looking at one side of the coin. What if America was being systematically settled and our land stolen daily? What if another country was using the pretext of stopping terrorism to deny you self-determination and take your land?

What if another nation was killing more of our innocent civilians than those killed by terrorism and doing so all under the pretext of terrorism?

I strongly condemn terrorism, for this reason I condemn Israel's policies, state terrorism and incentivation of terror.

Ruach, You still miss the point.

You say "I support Israel" and assume that this means that you support Israels actions. This is simply not the case.

Israel is not just "bombing the perpetrators". They are demolishing houses, confiscating land and launching rocket attacks that result in the deaths of children.

Worse yet. they continue to build settlements in occupied territory. This is the best way I can think of to make the conflict worse.

There are two ways to support Israel .

If supporting Israel means blindly cheering its current policies of violence and land grabbing in the belief that Israel should control the occupied terroritories, you are condemning Israelis (along with Palestinians) to another 50 years of intolerable violence. Israel has already been down this route and we know how it goes.

If supporting Israel means cheering when it moves toware a just peace then I am for it. To stop this senseless violence it must give up the settlements and offer a viable state. Why not support this process?

I support Israel. I hope that it achieves peace and security. This means I hope that it removes the settlements and stops dropping bombs and other brutal tactics that kill civilians.
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"The fruit of righteousness will be peace; the effect of righteousness will be quietness and confidence forever. "
Isaiah 32:17

I don't see it as Palestinians wanting peace. They have no doubt been suffering. The land Israel is taking back from Palestine is within the original land given to the Jews clear back to Hebrew times. Murder and terrorism precedes both their reputations. But knowing how so many nations desire to clear Israel out of the ME is not acceptable. They are forced to fight to survive and so must palestine. I never sing their praises either.
We are living in the New Testament times with the scripture there will be wars and rumors of wars and nations will be in turmoil.

Ah, I can't argue with a "God gave it to them". There's no point.

Anywho, out of curiosity, before the land was theirs it belonged to someone else. They had to conquer it.

Would you support the return of all that land to the previous residents?

The problem with this line of reasoning, favoured by the fundamentalist supporters of Israeli atrocities (DeLay comes to mind) is that there is little archeological or textual evidence for a "unified" kingdom of Israel. Considering that this is the sole claim used by the Israelis to justify their expansion from 1967 onwards, it does sort of thow a spanner into the works. Efforts by the fundamentalists to justify increasing violence against the Palestinians by reading John of Patmos fail to take into consideration that the text , composed in the late 2d century for a contemporary audience, was of a species of apocalypses in common circulation in the empire at the time. The text is an account of the sacking of Jerussalem, not a blueprint for future events. It wasn't even granted firm cannonical status in the Bible until the middle of the sixth century, and the Orthodox church considered it to be heterodox through the ninth century.

Liberate the Bacteria!

Interesting question.
What peoples occupied the land before the arrival of the Jews?

Herdsmen, villagers, Phoenician settlements, Persian settlements, Assyrian settlements, etc....

Rauch, You seem to believe in a very bad God.

Gods supports the "murder and terrorism" that is required to "take back the land" from Palestine? Your God supports the assassinations, the destruction of property and the death of children?

The God that I would respect would institute "peace and goodwill towrard men" instead of "wars .... and turmoil".

A God that wants to "bomb bomb bomb", seems awfully diabolical.

What ever happened to "love your enemy" and "do good to those who harm you"? What happened to forgiveness and compassion?

A God of hatred, killing and revenge. What will they come up with next?

Well, according to the fundamentalists, God believes in making money. God loves the rich!

Re: Interesting question.


Canaanites is as far back as I can go without help. But the Philistines have more locational significance to this particular thread and have a way cooler name.

....and this differs from any other time in human history in what way? The Old Testament/Torah seems to be nothing but a chronology of wars and the expectation of bigger and better ones.

The Gitas (India) and the mythologies of peoples as far apart as the Aztecs and the Vikings are all quite unremarkably similiar in 'predicting*' catastrophic change. All human populations have been exposed to disasters either from natural causes or other humans, catastrophic change is part and parcel of the human experience. Hardly strange that it is going to turn up as a common religious/mythological theme.




*I say predicting, because you can say any damn thing you like about future events, no-one's going to expect you to come up with solid evidence.

Good point, Craven, and perfect timing as well. Let's give the USA back to the Native Americans as a Thanksgiving present! (Also, the Mexicans are due part of California and all of Texas...Craven, have I missed other places?).

The Philistines were likely a Greco-Italic people, who are referred to by the Egyptians in that period of history as "the sea people." Waves of sea-borne raiders flooded into the coastal areas of the south-east Mediterranean in the era around 1500 BCE. Assyrians did not arrive in Palestine until the 7th century BCE, and the Persians only appeared in the 5th century BCE, and were not permanently in occupation until the late 4th century BCE, when the Persian administration was in fact Greco-Macedonian.

Give Ireland back to the Irish
Give Lappland back to the Lapps
GIve Bechuanaland back to the . . .

Oh, never mind . . .

Yes, Setanta, and didn't that end with something like,

"Oh, bring back my Bonnie to me"? :wink:

'Buhleeve so, but i ain't too good with musicals . . .