Society and it's role?

Really?

He's a rudderless craft in a hurricane?

Apparantly rudderless craft are pretty ideal.

Here's a hint, it's the individual that decides who they become. From the age of twelve forward the individual is able to make decisions on their own.

Only weak people are products of their circumstances.

Everyone gets pushed around by their environment. Those of us that aren't weak? We push back.

Listen clan - what happens long before the age of 12 is far more of a determining factor of how you will evolve as a man. By 12, without a solid foundation, that child has little chance for a good life. If you read the post instead of scanning it you would have realized that I complimented your grand father. Pay attention.

So you consider societies influences as a consience thing? Do you think any of us has a real measure as to what we are affected by?

Listen clan - what happens long before the age of 12 is far more of a determining factor of how you will evolve as a man. By 12, without a solid foundation, that child has little chance for a good life. If you read the post instead of scanning it you would have realized that I complimented your grand father. Pay attention.

Only when the playing field is level, and people are judged by the content of their character, and their talents instead of the color of their skin, or who they know, will that be true...you can talk all you want out the left side of your face...but until you walk in somebody else's shoes, instead of your Kenneth Coles, you need to be quiet.
And truth be told, some get pushed more than others...or do you deny "white privilege" exists?
And "those of us that aren't weak", isn't a question,, and doesn't deserve a question mark...equal opportunity syntax police. Geez.

The playing field will never be even.

Never.

And that doesn't change the fact that we are responsible for our actions.

I think that's asking too much.
12 is too late to "start" rearing a child.

Well, you know, idealist and optimist that I am, I don't believe that.

We are responsible for our own actions...but people can be better than they are.

Those that supported slavery, said, "Never!", and they waged a war to keep the institution in place...and they lost.

I've learned to never say "Never"....if you do, you're liable to be made a fool.

Well, you know, rational realist I am, I do believe that.

You stated it once, did something change for you to re-state it? Or do you enjoy repeating yourself, in the hopes that saying it often will change another's mind...or perhaps you like the sound of your own voice ("in print"), over and over again

That's what I'm saying.

I got that...I was in agreement...once again, you echo what you said before. why? didn't it fly the first time...or, perhaps, you like the sound of your own voice (in print), over and over again.

Man, that's a way to get it off topic.

"Off topic", or pertinent to illustrate a point. My, my, my....don't ever bring up the topic of slavery...it makes folks uncomfortable. Perhaps, they have unresolved issues surrounding it. Perhaps they feel "guilty". Or "shame"...perhaps those are the appropriate emotions to feel.

No, I'm liable to be made a realist.

You stated it once, did something change for you to re-state it? Or do you enjoy repeating yourself, in the hopes that saying it often will change another's mind...or perhaps you like the sound of your own voice ("in print"), over and over again

I got that...I was in agreement...once again, you echo what you said before. why? didn't it fly the first time...or, perhaps, you like the sound of your own voice (in print), over and over again.

"Off topic", or pertinent to illustrate a point. My, my, my....don't ever bring up the topic of slavery...it makes folks uncomfortable. Perhaps, they have unresolved issues surrounding it. Perhaps they feel "guilty". Or "shame"...perhaps those are the appropriate emotions to feel.

Intransigent. heels dug in. Those contemporaries of Columbus that thought they were realists to believe that he was sailing to his doom, had to recover their grace and dignity when they learned of his successes, in discovering The New World...they were made out to be, at the very least, "whimsical"( by some accounts) and "foolish" (by others)

I was contrasting "idealist and optimist" with "rational realist".

Oh, and that was supposed to illustrate a point, which would be what?
Can stop making open end, asinine statements and explain, as you would have me do, why you're a "rational realist", because I don't find "rational" in your makeup. You're motivated by your narrow and limited belief system, and I don't think you have valid reasons for believing as you do, but that's just me. You're free to live in the dark...countless others like you, so don't feel all alone

And... what's wrong with making the same point multiple times?

There is no medal for being redundant...you appear foolish

No, I wasn't sure whether or not you were in agreement.

Well, that just backs up my claim that some of you are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

That wasn't hard to figure out.



lol

No, I'm not guilty in the least bit or ashamed in the least bit.

I don't feel guilty or ashamed for other people.

Typical....Denial is pervasive. The fact is, slavery "should" be a source of guilt and shame...if it were so, you'd be more circumspect in your arrogant aire, and considerably more tolerant and compassionate, in light of social issues, concerning minorities, and that of "white privilege", which you enjoy and benefit from, daily. Oh, how'd I know you were white? Rhetoric, baby, rhetoric. Don't you find that curious. I mean your words give away your race....how could that be? Why do you suppose there are few black Republicans or conservatives? Because being Republican and being conservative is beneficial mainly to "white people", to the exclusion of everybody else...I'd say that's a problem...the Republican party image is one that is "non-inclusive", yet has a lot to say about the restriction of personal freedoms (pro-choice, hate crimes legislation, equity in the workplace, womens' rights, and tolerance of "others")...and ever since the party was 'hijacked" by the religious right, the effects have been more pronounced.
Is it any wonder why the Democrats and Independents are on the rise?



Oh yeah, that's a totally realist approach to take. "According to our fairy tales and wild guesses, you're screwed buddy!"

Your version of "realism" is pretty warped.

And with that we say goodbye? Can we hold you to that? Before you go i'd like to comment you on your tolerance.

But I'm done...I've given too much importance to this...this group of do-nothings with a lot of nothing to say. Keep on slapping each others backs as if you're doing a good job. Adios.

And mama didn't raise no fool, right? The word you were trying for is commend...
as well as "masturbation"....no "master" in it...look it up. Dictionaries are useful.
Or perhaps not...you'd have to have finished high school, let alone, grade school.
And yes, I'm going...just stuck around for parting shots...
I figure I'll let you just be stupid on your own...ouch, was that a parting personal attack? Guess so. Bye. Losers.

And mama didn't raise no fool, right?

The word you were trying for is commend...
as well as "masturbation"....no "master" in it...look it up. Dictionaries are useful.

Or perhaps not...you'd have to have finished high school, let alone, grade school.

And yes, I'm going...just stuck around for parting shots...

I figure I'll let you just be stupid on your own...ouch,

was that a parting personal attack?

Guess so. Bye. Losers

Oh, and that was supposed to illustrate a point, which would be what?
Can stop making open end, asinine statements and explain, as you would have me do, why you're a "rational realist", because I don't find "rational" in your makeup. You're motivated by your narrow and limited belief system, and I don't think you have valid reasons for believing as you do, but that's just me. You're free to live in the dark...countless others like you, so don't feel all alone

There is no medal for being redundant...you appear foolish

Well, that just backs up my claim that some of you are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Typical....Denial is pervasive. The fact is, slavery "should" be a source of guilt and shame...if it were so, you'd be more circumspect in your arrogant aire, and considerably more tolerant and compassionate, in light of social issues, concerning minorities, and that of "white privilege", which you enjoy and benefit from, daily. Oh, how'd I know you were white? Rhetoric, baby, rhetoric. Don't you find that curious. I mean your words give away your race....how could that be? Why do you suppose there are few black Republicans or conservatives? Because being Republican and being conservative is beneficial mainly to "white people", to the exclusion of everybody else...I'd say that's a problem...the Republican party image is one that is "non-inclusive", yet has a lot to say about the restriction of personal freedoms (pro-choice, hate crimes legislation, equity in the workplace, womens' rights, and tolerance of "others")...and ever since the party was 'hijacked" by the religious right, the effects have been more pronounced.
Is it any wonder why the Democrats and Independents are on the rise?

The same could be said for you....instead of you responding to my premise, you rejected it out of hand....telling, that you ask for what you refuse to give, which is acknowledgement that ones' argument has validity on the merits, even though you don't agree with the conclusion.
Therefore, you're another with whom I've been "spinning my wheels" with.
It's been an exercise in futility, and quite frankly, a waste of time...you're an ideologue, with no clue as to how you got there, and you offer no solutions to the problems presented...you're the product of your recalcitrant mind.
My partner has noticed me spending way too much time arguing and venting with people who are stuck in a mindset which is rooted in fear and ignorance...he is frustrated because I seemed to care about trying to contribute to the fabric of discussion, in a forum of mindsets that are baffling, troubling, and self righteous. But I'm done...I've given too much importance to this...this group of do-nothings with a lot of nothing to say. Keep on slapping each others backs as if you're doing a good job. Adios.