Immigration

@ndjs,

ndjs wrote:

Newsmax never seems credible to me...

He sounds about as much of a linguist as our President, lol.

lol yea he does

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@ndjs,

I don't use Newsmax for references , I just saw the statement and it was the same thing I read somewhere else.

I just didn't want to go on a fishing trip. Very Happy

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@cranston36 cv,

It bugs me that everytime some one starts a conversation about illegal immigration, people automatically think of Mexicans or hispanics.....Anyway, I agree we need to secure our borders and get a better control on illegal immigration. With that said, it is very naive to believe that it is possible to deport every single person currently living illegally in the US. Illegal workers contribute to the US economy, they are a huge part of the agriculture industry, whether u like it or not whether u accept it or not, otherwise the US govt wouldn't be considering giving these people work permits. These people have been here years working their asses of w/o any rights or benefits, u should see how some of these people live in the fields where they work, in little huts made of wood or wtver they could find, making minimum wage only to be thrown out by their "employers" when the season is over. Should they be here ilegally? maybe not, are they criminals for doing so, I don't think so. I don't see how it would hurt the US or any of us if this people were given work permits,as a matter of fact we would see a nice influx of tax revenue. As far as learning english, I agree, just try to be a little patient with someone who is in his late 40s or older trying to learn a whole new laguage. its not very easy and will take some time.

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@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon wrote:

I love America , it was founded by LEGAL IMMIGRANTS . I wish we could encorce the existing laws and deport all the illegals we can . They have all the right in the world to come in to the US legally .

Agreed.

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@ndjs,

ndjs wrote:

^ I second.

I third that.

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@Drnaline,

I'm not sure what the big deal is with refering to an artical in NewsMax just to point out a comment.

I wasn't using the article to debate my position in a formal debate. I actually know very little about NewsMax, or how credible info is that comes from that site. I don't use it as a primary source.

I only stated an opinion, for the sake of discussion.

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@Drnaline,

Drnaline

Thanks. I really don't know much about NewsMax. All the major outlets put a certain spin to their reporting. I wouldn't trust any one of them without checking other sources.

1 Reply

@tumbleweed cv,

tumbleweed wrote:

Drnaline

Thanks. I really don't know much about NewsMax. All the major outlets put a certain spin to their reporting. I wouldn't trust any one of them without checking other sources.

Your welcome. I remember the day when all they did was report and let us decide. But that was pre vietnam and i was a young sprite then, LOL.

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@JEB007,

:backtotopic: for Christ's sake. And I don't even believe in him.

JEB007 wrote:

It bugs me that everytime some one starts a conversation about illegal immigration, people automatically think of Mexicans or hispanics.....

I agree there and am usually very careful to not make that assumption. However you do have to agree that the majority of illegals do come from Mexico... But still, that gives us no right to assume all immigrants are illegal and Mexican, or all hispanics are Mexican, etc.

JEB007 wrote:

Anyway, I agree we need to secure our borders and get a better control on illegal immigration. With that said, it is very naive to believe that it is possible to deport every single person currently living illegally in the US. Illegal workers contribute to the US economy, they are a huge part of the agriculture industry, whether u like it or not whether u accept it or not, otherwise the US govt wouldn't be considering giving these people work permits.

Hell yes we need to secure our borders. With landmines, walls, machine guns, barb wire, trenches, hungry alligators, and anything else that would prevent people from coming over illegally. Even if I'm not talking about all the immigrants already here, we need to stop new ones from coming illegally. As far as immigrants being a huge impact on our economy, the studies go both ways, nothing is really decisive. I do think they affect our economy in a positive way, but automatic deportation would not cripple us. Perhaps the government doesn't see deportation as financially feasible? That's a big undertaking, and just another thing for government agencies to **** up, maybe they're just taking the easy way out? :dunno:

JEB007 wrote:

These people have been here years working their asses of w/o any rights or benefits, u should see how some of these people live in the fields where they work, in little huts made of wood or wtver they could find, making minimum wage only to be thrown out by their "employers" when the season is over.

w/o any rights or benefits? Except school for their children, food stamps from the government, etc. These illegals are not stupid. They know free **** when they can get it. And they don't pay taxes now either. I'm sorry they have to live in huts and get fired, but tough ****. If they had come over here LEGALLY, maybe they could get a REAL JOB.

JEB007 wrote:

Should they be here ilegally? maybe not, are they criminals for doing so, I don't think so. I don't see how it would hurt the US or any of us if this people were given work permits,as a matter of fact we would see a nice influx of tax revenue.

OK, this statement right here is what completely baffles me about immigration.

Is it illegal to come across the border without going through the legal immigration process?
Yes, but I don't think they're criminals.

Unless you're a supreme court judge or at least a lawmaker in this country, it doesn't matter. That statement doesn't even make sense. People who do things that make them criminals are just that, criminals. One of the definitions of criminal does include "legally convicted" of a crime, but also says "one that has commited" so unless we're playing word games, and I don't think we are, then that's a moot point.

I'm gonna go steal some ****, but I don't think it makes me a thief.

JEB007 wrote:

As far as learning english, I agree, just try to be a little patient with someone who is in his late 40s or older trying to learn a whole new laguage. its not very easy and will take some time.

I understand, but lots of them make NO EFFORT to learn the language, and what makes me the most mad is when I know they can speak English, and don't because they don't want me to know they can because I'm white I guess. I can speak other languages decently well, and they'll converse with me in another language, but no sir. not in english. And i've heard them speak it before. :beat:

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ndjs wrote:

oh my god. start a new topic.

LMAO!!

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@cranston36 cv,

I hope that wasn't aimed at me......

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@cranston36 cv,

Calm down.....

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@ndjs,

ndjs wrote:

Newsmax never seems credible to me...

He sounds about as much of a linguist as our President, lol.

I dont think ones lineage should play a role in what they believe about illegal immigration. My parents came here illegally form mexico in the late 1970's and were granted amnesty.
Yet I do not agree with the leniancy most democrats want to give to illegals. If someone is here illegally they should face reprocussions and not rewards from the U.S. Government.
I found it funny that here in Los Angeles many people protested and waved various non american flags, if they are so proud of their home countryswhy dont thety demand help of their governments?

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@cranston36 cv,

I dont however think its possible to deport 12 million people and if they did they would first have to secure the borders.
But seriously how the hell would they plan on rounding up all illegals? Put up a flyer that say "Go to the USA/Mexico border and we will grant you amnesty" Laughing

from there you round them all up and seperate them into the countries they came from and send them back by the boat load? I dont think it would be very simple.

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@cranston36 cv,

no, there is no way to get them out. But when ones who are fall into the governments/police forces/etc's hands, they should be taken care of.

And you are very right about needing to secure the borders first.

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@cranston36 cv,

Only legal residents and citizens qualify for food stamps. The welfare system is greatly abused but it is wrong to generalize that this is mostly by illegal immigrants. Many illegal immigrants are actually afraid to go to any Govt. agency due to fear of deportation. As far as free school goes, I gladly pay my taxes knowing part of that money goes to help an undocumented child get an education, better that is used for that than to make some fat cat in Washington richer. I know many, and I mean many illegal workers who are in an eternal quest to achieve legal status and they would gladly pay taxes if given the opportunity, many American citizens don’t pay taxes and they do it because they don’t want to not because they can’t. Once again we can’t generalize that it’s only the “illegals” that don’t pay taxes.
I do not intend to play any word games, I should’ve been clearer. The word criminal places a label on a person that is negative. This person is usually viewed by society as a threat to life or property. I do not see this people as criminals, sorry. Besides, they have not violated any criminal laws so I don’t see the need to call them that.
I do not think one's lineage should affect the way one sees Illegal immigration either. I came to the U.S. with a Green Card in my wallet. I am not say I condone illegal immigration either. As far as am concerned we do need to address the issue, even if we have to surround our borders with deadly lasers. But I do not see the harm in giving amnesty to the people that have been here for some time. Now, if they are given this opportunity and still decide not to attain legal status, then by all means send them back.

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@JEB007,

Maybe Bush will give them a presidential pardon.:lightbulb:

1 Reply

@JEB007,

JEB007 wrote:

Only legal residents and citizens qualify for food stamps. The welfare system is greatly abused but it is wrong to generalize that this is mostly by illegal immigrants. Many illegal immigrants are actually afraid to go to any Govt. agency due to fear of deportation.

I don't believe I ever generalized that welfare is mostly abused by illegals, because I don't believe that. However, I do know illegals who have food stamps. I don't think that only illegals misuse welfare. I once saw a 300+ lb black woman buy $350 some odd worth of "food" (champagne, beer, wine, candy, steaks, etc) and get into a brand new (2005 model in a 2004 calendar year) Escalade with 22" wheels. And she used food stamps. They should be afraid to go to government agencies! They don't belong here! They should be afraid to even come here illegally.

Quote:

I don't want my taxes going to pay for people who don't belong here. Is that cold? Yeah, but that's how it is as far as I'm concerned. I don't go to other countries expecting free ****. Whenever I've been to another country, the last thing I expected was to be treated like I belonged there. And I've only gone to visit. I even knew their language, and I only went for vacation. You'd think someone moving here to live illegally could at least learn to communicate. I'm well aware of the fact that many born and raised Americans don't pay taxes. That's illegal. They should pay up or go to jail, I don't care who or what color they are or where they're from. I think if they were in a quest to become legal, they should still get sent home, then they come back in the right way. They could pay taxes then.

Quote:

Is it illegal to be in the United States illegally? That sounds like a rhetorical question to me. The word criminal does place a negative connotation on a person, and it SHOULD. Maybe they do have their positive effects on our country or their community, but they are illegal.

Quote:

I do not think one's lineage should affect the way one sees Illegal immigration either. I came to the U.S. with a Green Card in my wallet. I am not say I condone illegal immigration either. As far as am concerned we do need to address the issue, even if we have to surround our borders with deadly lasers. But I do not see the harm in giving amnesty to the people that have been here for some time. Now, if they are given this opportunity and still decide not to attain legal status, then by all means send them back.

I'm part Mexican, part Cherokee, and mostly white trash. I'm the last person to insert personal lineage into this debate. You said it yourself, many illegals are afraid to go seek help from the government. Given the opportunity to attain amnesty, you and I both know that so many wouldn't go. They'd still be afraid, and maybe they'd know that they'd have to pay taxes...

1 Reply

@ndjs,

ndjs wrote:

I'm part Mexican, part Cherokee, and mostly white trash. I'm the last person to insert personal lineage into this debate. ...

My comment about lineage was directed to Steve's post.

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@JEB007,

JEB007 wrote:

You make some valid points but i have a few comments. Not that you want them, LOL.

Quote:

The welfare system is greatly abused but it is wrong to generalize that this is mostly by illegal immigrants.

The system is there for legal citizens, no accomodation that i know of was ever made of illegals. Regardless of nationality.

Quote:

I know quite a few as well and some if not all that are illegal and are working for vaious company's pay taxes. It's just not to there social security number(If they had one). They allow those taxes extracted so they may work. They will never file on those taxes because they cannot prove it is really them if the IRS gets involved. I know a few who use the same SS number as well. What happens to all that money that never gets claimed on? Some one is sitting on a cash cow and not talking about it. I'm sure if they wanted, the IRS or whoever could track down most if not all of the offenders but why would they when there putting money in and NEVER taking it out?

Quote:

The label is correct. They know it is correct too. If it wasn't, they would not of crossed in the middle of the night or hid in a dummy tractor trailer or what ever means they used to get here. It is a criminal act and is against are law, even if it were to stay a mister meaner (sic). The act that they have commited is trespassing. If you find someone you didn't know in your home you can have them arrested. Prosicute them but we as a nation chose to deport them.

Quote:

But I do not see the harm in giving amnesty to the people that have been here for some time.

That would be rewarding an unlawful act. You would begrudge all those vast millions that did it the right way. Why did they go through all the motions when all they had to do was sneak in and wait for a long time?

Quote:

Now, if they are given this opportunity and still decide not to attain legal status, then by all means send them back.

They were given that chance already, they chose to enter illegally and knowing they were doing so. With this line of reasoning then after this is passed then some one else will argue well why not give them a third chance, maybe a fourth?

1 Reply

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