Protesting Is Suspicious Behavior?

hobbit:

Actually, I'm sure Ashcroft could find such groups useful as Agents Provactures!

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We've had it as a nation. I don't know how many have noticed but we're getting real close to totalitarianism. Try to get a specific response to a letter from your congressman. Ha! Computer generated generic letter is the best you'll do.
What this country needs is a good protracted killing war. That's what it takes to bring people back together, to up-end special interests and eliminate rotten scoundrels and, to get back to basics.
A nuke in Washington DC on Monday morning would be the biggest blessing this country ever experienced.

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grottomaster wrote:

We've had it as a nation. I don't know how many have noticed but we're getting real close to totalitarianism. Try to get a specific response to a letter from your congressman. Ha! Computer generated generic letter is the best you'll do.

Try emailing the whitehouse. There is an applet in place that makes one answer many questions before you can post a message. one of those questions, "is this message in favour of the presdent's policies," if given a "no" response results in the inability to actually send the message.

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What this country needs is a good protracted killing war. That's what it takes to bring people back together, to up-end special interests and eliminate rotten scoundrels and, to get back to basics.

I disagree. War is a tool used by those in power to control the masses. That is exactly what is occurring now.

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A nuke in Washington DC on Monday morning would be the biggest blessing this country ever experienced.

Killing is never a blessing. It is the resource of those who have no imagination or humanity.

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War is multiply excruciating waste of incalcuable pain. Don't even kid that it is useful. For one thing, it only generates an equal and opposite reaction, just like chemistry.

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ossobuco wrote:

War is multiply excruciating waste of incalcuable pain. Don't even kid that it is useful. For one thing, it only generates an equal and opposite reaction, just like chemistry.

Yes, as is happening after the violation of Afghanistan and Iraq. These "wars" have been accompanied by increased terrorism. Terrorism is criminal and responding like a wounded Godzilla is also criminal. We need true leaders, people who can identify problems and find solutions. Your current leaders and mine haven't a clue. They exploit our fear in the hope we will not see the truth, they foster hate in our hearts so we will join in their bloody frenzy.

I believe a day when terrorism is defeated will come , but I know that Bush , Blair and Howard will not contribute. These are the three stooges of the Western world. Sadly. their violent tastes are not confined to slapstick.

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Bush, Blair and Howard ARE terrorists. Perhaps the worst in history.

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hobitbob, would you share your views with me on a couple of innocent questions, plese?
1. What alternatives are there to war?
2. Is revenge an acceptable motive for a war response?
3. Are you English or of English ancestry (I saw yer coat of arms and it looks a bit like mine).
4. R U a hobbit?

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grottomaster wrote:

hobitbob, would you share your views with me on a couple of innocent questions, plese?
1. What alternatives are there to war?

In the case of Iraq, further sanctions, or a truly international effort to remove Hussein from power.

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2. Is revenge an acceptable motive for a war response?

Only if you have the emotional maturity of a three year old.

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3. Are you English or of English ancestry (I saw yer coat of arms and it looks a bit like mine).

My avatar is a Tora no Maki, the design drawn by Kosugi, Hoan first appeared as the frontspeice to Funakoshi's Karate Do Kyohan in 1935. I did Shotokan for 22 years before switching to Seibukan Shorin Ryu. Its probably as non-English as one can get! Very Happy

I'm an Arab.

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4. R U a hobbit?

My nickname in High School was Frodo (thank you for calling 1-800- Goth Geeks are Us!), and as the saying goes, some of us have hobbitdom thrust upon them. Wink

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Well, Gees! If you're an Arab, no wonder you don't want Americans in the Middle East. But, heck, hobitbob, we have a lot of Arabs here... but they want to stay. Like, foever. What I say to Americans in the Middle East is, "folks, if ya get blown up, don't whine to me about it."
It's a dangerous place for Americans... and apparently also for the various mini-factions of Sunni and Shia' Islam too.
Thanx for the reponse.

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grottomaster wrote:

Well, Gees! If you're an Arab, no wonder you don't want Americans in the Middle East.

Being Arab has nothing to do with it. As an American I have a certain amount of respect for what we supposedly stand for: justice, freedom, etc... I nenver thought we would stand for illegal invasion adn occupation of a country, regardless of where the occupation occured. If it were occurring in Asia, Europe, Africa, S. America, etc, I would still oppose it.

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But, heck, hobitbob, we have a lot of Arabs here... but they want to stay. Like, foever.

And this has exactly what to do with the topic?

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What I say to Americans in the Middle East is, "folks, if ya get blown up, don't whine to me about it."

Blame your government!

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It's a dangerous place for Americans... and apparently also for the various mini-factions of Sunni and Shia' Islam too.
Thanx for the reponse.

And has been made more dangerous by the ignorance of the administration. "Wolfy of Arabia" indeed! Confused

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Well, hobitbob, all I can say is this:
1. I frequently get off-topic.
2. You seem to have the low-down on the political pulse as it exists here and your points are quite valid. I see no incorrectness in what you have brought to light.
3. Have a happy Thankgiving but don't shoot any Indians. We did that too you know and that started quite a big mess.

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hobitbob wrote:

grottomaster wrote:
Well, Gees! If you're an Arab, no wonder you don't want Americans in the Middle East.

Being Arab has nothing to do with it. As an American I have a certain amount of respect for what we supposedly stand for: justice, freedom, etc... I nenver thought we would stand for illegal invasion adn occupation of a country...

Of course, that isn't exactly what happened, though, is it?

What actually happened was that the US chose (as was our right) to RESUME a military conflict that had been paused by a ceasefire, the terms of which were never followed by the other party, as that party had obligated itself to do under the ceasefire. Having broken the ceasefire, the other party had knowingly exposed itself to reengagement, had been repeatedly warned that said reengagement was coming, and had refused to take any action to avoid a recommencement of hostilities.

Those are the facts, for any who care about facts. Very Happy

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Your facts are all bassackward, friend. To the Bush people, anything any of them utters is a "fact".

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The original conflict was engaged in by a coalition of nations, all but one nation of which did not concur in the necessity for a "re-engagement," to use your charmingly disingenuous expression. The original conflict was sanctioned by the United Nations, which did not sanction the "re-engagement." Those are the facts, for any who care about facts.

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shoesharper wrote:

Your facts are all bassackward, friend. To the Bush people, anything any of them utters is a "fact".

I like the way you skillfully ignored every point I made, and offered only a simplistic insult by way of response.

That is a fact.

Thomas Sowell has a whole book about people like you. It's called "Is Reality Optional?" If you haven't already firmed up your Christmas list, you might want to ask for a copy. Cool

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Just remember folks, when the FBI calls and says "We'd like to speak with you". Just say "no thanks" and hang up. Rolling Eyes

Enviornmental activists are continually harrassed by Ascroft & Co. Greenpeace is now being prosecuted by the Justice Department for boarding a Brazilian ship carrying illegal teak - with signs saying "Bush, Stop Illegal Shipments"! The Esperanza was not allowed to dock in Florida after the protest. Ya gotta watch all those terrorist animal/enviornmental activists.

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Stradee - Is it your contention that in your cited examples the groups or individuals involved were breaking no laws? That would certainly make your citations meaningful. Of course, the reality is that lots of well-intentioned people and groups break the law to try to make their point or get their way. Would you suggest that the government is harassing anti-abortion activists who block abortion clinics or bomb them? No, I don't think you would. When these groups act outside the law, they should expect legal consequences, no matter how noble their goals.

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just out of curiousity scrat, is there ever a situation when it's ok to break the law intentionally?

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Most enviornmental groups and animals groups that I'm involved with do not break the law. However, Greenpeace boarding a ship in protest
wasn't a huge concern, until Ashcroft. He pulled out of his hat an obscure law and voila - went after the largest pro-enviornmental group in the land. It is naive to believe that the administration will not use any tactics to further their agenda, wheather breaking the "law" or not.

Agreeably, there's some nasty stuff happening in the world today - but that does not give the Justice Department carte blance to harass, detain,
or otherwise promote lawlessness, which is exactly what they are doing.

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Scrat -- No, I did not ignore the points you made. I simply did not find a single one of them worthy of the time I would spend in rebuttal -- and you would only hurl more of your "facts" at me. So why bother?

And the two sentences with which I responded were not meant as insults, but mere statements of FACT.

Have a nice day. Very Happy

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