The Essence of Liberalism: Embracing Life's Losers

@Drnaline,

Liberalism is a religion that celebrates human weakness -- psychological, physical and spiritual. :cavt-126-asard:

@Drnaline,

Liberalism is necessary in a diverse society, or else there would be no other way to concile so many diferent needs. Though I disagree that liberalism is an effective way of government, because you can only truely represent fully a homogeneous society. Governments are supposed to pick sides, because it is supposed to theoretically represent the views of the majority, so why would it against its wishes promote the needs of a minority? Some people however radicalize these principals, creating many times xenophobic ideals, anyone should be welcome, as long as they agree and live by the views and ideals of the majority, if you don't agree, or refuse to live as such, then you have no place among us. That should be every governments moto, as Pinochet said very well: If you don't like us please leave.

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@Drnaline,

Although everything there is true, there's a lot more to liberalism than is expressed in that article. The tendency to side with the underdog might produce their idiotic policies, or it may be a product of the policies themselves, if you know what I mean.

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@Drnaline,

The Christian Warrior has no time for liberalism. He loathes it, and has vowed to crush it.

[SIZE="4"]VIVA LA FALANGE INTERNACIONAL[/SIZE]:AR15firing:

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@Drnaline,

Your all kidding right....The poor all deserve what they get...right...the only virtue is financial sucess ....power is the ultimate virtue...the object of power is power....sheesh.....I guess that makes Haliburton a church right
Lets all move to China ...that vision is much closer to Moa and Stalin than anything in American liberal political make up

let me get out the holy sheets

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@Drnaline,

I'm talking about LIBERALISM, the religion. You're talking about humanitarianism. They're different.:ban:

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@Drnaline,

Damn right they are !
Modern Liberalism is a sham cooked up by it's leaders for no better purpose than to further their own lust for power and control , very much unlike liberal leaders in the past such as JFK . They depend on the "downtrodden" to vote them into office on empty promises , then use them to their own gain - more power and control .
Americans in general are humanitarian in deed and spirit , modern liberals to a large degree are humanitarian in words only .

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@Drnaline,

A great article, makes it look to work both ways. Something in there for fans of sep of church and state. Or Jeffersons brand of liberalism ain't nohing like todays.

Are You Really a Liberal? - Alain's Newsletter

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@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;12362 wrote:

Damn right they are !
Modern Liberalism is a sham cooked up by it's leaders for no better purpose than to further their own lust for power and control , very much unlike liberal leaders in the past such as JFK . They depend on the "downtrodden" to vote them into office on empty promises , then use them to their own gain - more power and control .
Americans in general are humanitarian in deed and spirit , modern liberals to a large degree are humanitarian in words only .

Hee-hee, I love reading your posts Cur. I think the Modern Liberal is a rampart Socialist and they pontificate their mantra of "Nanny governemnt" and life long welfare as a just thing. I can't stand these spineless cry babies. Now the classical Liberal is another kettle of fish, but unfortunately in Canada the C. Liberal is now what we call the Conservative Party and our NDP party represent's fringe parties, their mantra is "Have a special holiday" for transvestites and they recommended Veterns Day. No I'm not kidding. They are really concerned that Canada doesn't have a third washroom labeled "Other" so those who cross dress or what ever else can pee in private. Sorry but I really don't give a rat's ass where they pee, and I wouldn't vote for this party with a gun pointed at my head. The modern Liberal are keyboard "Humanitarians" they never get off their ass or pull out their cheque book to help those in need they'd rather force hard working people to do so visa vie more "Taxes". Spew, :no:

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@Drnaline,

American liberalism in the extreme isn't liberal at all -- it produces the definitive, Marxist-Leninist, totalitarian state. In Latin America, it gives rise to anarchy and genocide against the Catholic Church. Liberalism is a front for communist tyranny. Death to communism. :no:

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@Drnaline,

Hmph.

American conservatism in the extreme isn't conservative at all -- it produces the definitive, Theocratic-Fascist, totalitarian state. Death to theocrats and fascists. Yay. Whoo.

Need I remind you of examples of conservative fascists? I doubt I do.

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@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;12327 wrote:

The Christian Warrior has no time for liberalism. He loathes it, and has vowed to crush it.

[SIZE="4"]VIVA LA FALANGE INTERNACIONAL[/SIZE]:AR15firing:

Assuming Liberals are evil (they get my vote), your stance would be the polar opposite of the true Christian stance.

Didn't Jesus say "Resist not Evil"?

so I guess that meant everyone but you? There are Muslims who take vows to crush those with opposing view points, we call them the Taliban...

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@Red cv,

Red;12538 wrote:

They are really concerned that Canada doesn't have a third washroom labeled "Other" so those who cross dress or what ever else can pee in private. Sorry but I really don't give a rat's ass where they pee, and I wouldn't vote for this party with a gun pointed at my head.

Actually, having no distinction between the genders would not create the need for more washrooms. It would save money by reducing the need. If there is no gender, there is no need for more than one type of washroom. Why have a mens room if there is no distinction between men and women? Why have a womens room if there is no distinction between men and women or if someone can make up their own gender on a whim?

Down is up and up is down and you can't prove what I say isn't true because what's true for you doesn't have to be true for me. Neyah, neyah, neyah, neyah, neyah! Sorry, I reverted to an earlier stage.

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@0Megabyte,

0Megabyte;14222 wrote:

Hmph.

American conservatism in the extreme isn't conservative at all -- it produces the definitive, Theocratic-Fascist, totalitarian state. Death to theocrats and fascists. Yay. Whoo.

Need I remind you of examples of conservative fascists? I doubt I do.

More communists/socialists than fascists in the U.S.

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@Drnaline,

In the United States? There are certain socialist forms that exist, but to say that there are more people after having all means of production under community control (which is key to both communism and socialism) is something that leaves me skeptical.

However, there are plenty of proponents of Social Democracy. Propnents of Social Democracy generally go for this:

A mixed economy, consisting mainly of private enterprise but with government owned or subsidised programs of education, healthcare, child care etc for all citizens.
Regulatory systems over private enterprise in the interests of workers, consumers and fair competition.
Advocacy of fair trade over free trade.
An extensive system of social security (though usually not to the extent advocated by democratic socialists or other socialist groups), notably to counteract the effects of poverty and to insure the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
Moderate to high levels of taxation (through a progressive taxation system) to fund government expenditure.
Environmental protection laws (although not always to the extent advocated by Greens), such as combating global warming and increasing alternative energy funding.
Immigration and multiculturalism.
A secular and progressive social policy, although this varies markedly in degree. Most social democrats support gay marriage, abortion rights and a liberal drug policy, while others are either non-committed or opposed to these policies.
A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.
As well as human rights, social democrats also support social rights, civil rights and civil liberties

Yeah, there are a few scattered communists. But there are a number of Christian nationalists who support turning the U.S. into a Christian flavored Iran-style theocracy, too. (Not that they see it that way.)

Let's hope neither small group (forthe numbers who actually are part of either of these groups is definitely small) becomes powerful enough to change the nation to their way of thinking.

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@Drnaline,

Quote:

Yeah, there are a few scattered communists. But there are a number of Christian nationalists who support turning the U.S. into a Christian flavored Iran-style theocracy, too. (Not that they see it that way.)

See abortion thread for my views on this.

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@Drnaline,

Drnaline;12306 wrote:

The rhetoric of today’s left shows that they see society divided between the privileged and the powerless, the favored and the unfortunate, victors and victims.

Liberals feel an irresistible instinct to take sides with the less fortunate.

_____________________
great points, click for the rest.

If the finacial goals and means of the right didn't widen the gap between the haves, and the have nots, or at least left a glimmer of hope for those that are not as well off than maybe the hard line stance wouldn't have to exist. Problem is in a capitalist society of millions not everyone is going to get a peice of the pie, and since America is the land of opportunity, many feel dissent when they are scathed from a decent life through social and political policy and practice. I mean jesus the minimum wage has been $5.15- $7.63 for how long? And inflation has gone up how much in that time? 5.15 an hour is NOT a livable wage, especially if you have a family, so now you are working yourself into the ground to make a somewhat decent go at life, while congress votes themselves raises, and multinational corporations are jacking up prices on everything. And the middle class is getting raped in the ass every step of the way. It's ******* ludicrious.

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@92b16vx,

92b16vx;14528 wrote:

If the finacial goals and means of the right didn't widen the gap between the haves, and the have nots, or at least left a glimmer of hope for those that are not as well off than maybe the hard line stance wouldn't have to exist. Problem is in a capitalist society of millions not everyone is going to get a peice of the pie, and since America is the land of opportunity, many feel dissent when they are scathed from a decent life through social and political policy and practice. I mean jesus the minimum wage has been $5.15- $7.63 for how long? And inflation has gone up how much in that time? 5.15 an hour is NOT a livable wage, especially if you have a family, so now you are working yourself into the ground to make a somewhat decent go at life, while congress votes themselves raises, and multinational corporations are jacking up prices on everything. And the middle class is getting raped in the ass every step of the way. It's ******* ludicrious.

When i can't afford my way of life because of what ever. I get another job. Since when is it guaranteed you should only have to work one job and get it all? You want a better life then work for it like every body else.

Quote:

I mean jesus the minimum wage has been $5.15- $7.63 for how long?

How many jobs have you had that started you out at minimum wage? I've been in and out of different trades and i only worked for minimum wage once, you?

Quote:

And inflation has gone up how much in that time?

The means buckle down and work harder, what does it mean to you?

Quote:

5.15 an hour is NOT a livable wage, especially if you have a family, so now you are working yourself into the ground to make a somewhat decent go at life,

Are you confused with "persuit of happiness?" It is not guaranteed.

Quote:

while congress votes themselves raises, and multinational corporations are jacking up prices on everything.

It's called free enterprise for the workers, coruption for the politicians. One class works for what he has, the other is intent on that person sharing his bounty with those less fortunate and by doing so will also get a little sur charge for his trouble. They call that democracy.

Quote:

It's ******* ludicrious

As fucked up as it is, we got the best gig going. Bar none.

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@Drnaline,

Drnaline;14532 wrote:

When i can't afford my way of life because of what ever. I get another job. Since when is it guaranteed you should only have to work one job and get it all? You want a better life then work for it like every body else.

At some point one has to look at life and decide if working a 60+ hour week to get by is what they want or not. People shouldn't have to work themselves to death to afford basic nescessities. I get paid well over minimum wage, yet after rent, bills, food for three, and all the taxes, fees, and little nickel dime crap, am still, according to the IRS, below the poverty line. Now, granted, I could take on another job, work 70+ hours a week (already put in 60), manage my money a littel better and cut out some spending, but it's my choice not to. 1.6million people get bare paid mw, with 5.5mil making up to 6.65, usually family unit of workers getting paid mw, are dual, even triple income homes amounting to an average just under $40,000 a year*1. That's a lot of people working their asses of to make other people rich and not gettings **** for it, but, whent ey raise minimum wage guess what happens? Less qualified people find it harder to get jobs, cost of lving goes up, up, up, and the increase in the end didn't really mean anything.

With government waste, fraud, and cost of living expanding, and income not going up proportionaly (unless you work yourself to death, or get lucky), it really is surprising that basically, the lower and working class are being called the losers of society, by hmmm....rich baffons?

Quote:

How many jobs have you had that started you out at minimum wage?

In recent years, none, when I was younger, many. But even making double minimum wage is still barely a livable wage, muchless a good living. One question, are you single or married? Do you have any kids?

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The means buckle down and work harder, what does it mean to you?

It means that the us govenment and corporation are extorting profits from the American people, much faster than they are giving the opporunity to enjoy a better standard of living.

Quote:

Are you confused with "persuit of happiness?" It is not guaranteed.

Like I said above even making double minimum wage is tough to support a family. Happiness isn't found in a bank account, but it hard to be happy when most of your waking hours are spent making large sums of money for other while getting little yourself.

Quote:

It's called free enterprise for the workers, coruption for the politicians. One class works for what he has, the other is intent on that person sharing his bounty with those less fortunate and by doing so will also get a little sur charge for his trouble. They call that democracy.
As ***ed up as it is, we got the best gig going. Bar none.

While I would be inclined to agree, I have some some really good lving, with less headaches, and a better quality of life in a few countries outside our own. Still, just because we have the "best gig in town" doesn't mean that people don't have the right to be diparaged about the way the class system works, and they certainly should not be called the losers of the society because they want a good life for everyone of our citizens.

*1 numbers taken from Heritage Foundation calculations for 2000

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The Essence of Liberalism: Embracing Life's Losers

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