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Militants do prefer democrats

 
 
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 06:06 pm
Afghan Warlord: GOP Loss a Win for Militants


In a rare video message, Afghan insurgent leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar claims that American troops will be forced out of Afghanistan like the Soviets before them.


The leader of the Hezb-e-Islami militant group also touts the Republican Party defeat in last month's U.S. midterm elections as a victory for militants fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.



"It seems that every bullet that mujahedeen had fired toward the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan has turned into a vote against Bush," Hekmatyar said in the undated video statement received by Associated Press Television in Pakistan.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,168 • Replies: 26
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tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 06:56 pm
@Drnaline,
Old news. Statements like that have been going around since the election.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Dec, 2006 09:07 pm
@Drnaline,
Yeah, and they all seem directed against repugs and in favor of democrats. Wonder why? Ten out of ten terrorists can't be wrong.
Wonder why they don't like us. Maybe it's because we are the only thing in the way of you and them getting your way?
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 01:25 am
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;8174 wrote:
Yeah, and they all seem directed against repugs and in favor of democrats. Wonder why? Ten out of ten terrorists can't be wrong.
Wonder why they don't like us. Maybe it's because we are the only thing in the way of you and them getting your way?


I can understand why they don't like Republicans.:cool:
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 01:44 am
@tumbleweed cv,
"I can understand why they don't like Republicans."

OK , that's clear , now , Tumbleweed- would you please tell us why (in your opinion , of course )they seem to like Democrats and the power shift in America ?
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 02:39 am
@Curmudgeon,
Because they see Republicans too anxious to go to war. Bush policies are what brought that on. Shoot first, ask questions later is what they see.

Bush is the face of the Republican party. He is the most hated president that I can recall. They feel once he is gone, his type of foreign policy will go with it.

The terrorist aren't the only people who feel that way.Most of the Arab world feels that way.
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 02:57 am
@tumbleweed cv,
Thanks for your reply .
Now , do you think the new congress will do anything very much differently in the arena of Iraq and to rebuild the view of America in the world ?
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 05:41 am
@Curmudgeon,
Not with Bush in office. He is a big part of the problem.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 07:55 am
@tumbleweed cv,
tumbleweed;8181 wrote:
Because they see Republicans too anxious to go to war. Bush policies are what brought that on. Shoot first, ask questions later is what they see.

Bush is the face of the Republican party. He is the most hated president that I can recall. They feel once he is gone, his type of foreign policy will go with it.

The terrorist aren't the only people who feel that way.Most of the Arab world feels that way.
Nice try. He asked you why they seem to like democrats, not what you think is wrong with repugs.
Quote:
Shoot first, ask questions later is what they see.


What else would you want a terrorist to see? Is that not how they respond to every thing? So what brought on the terrorist policy's before Bush?
Quote:
Bush is the face of the Republican party. He is the most hated president that I can recall. They feel once he is gone, his type of foreign policy will go with it.

And the cowards will be in control. Cut and run by any others word is till cut and run. and the terrorists know it, that's why the like democRATs.
Quote:
The terrorist aren't the only people who feel that way.Most of the Arab world feels that way.

Yeah like Iran and Syria. You've only got two more years to play the blame game on Bush for the world problems who gets the blame after? A little personal responcibility goes along way but being a libby and all we know your in denial. And it may as well be a river in Egypt.
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 09:03 am
@Drnaline,
OK , I will rephrase my question .

Do you think the congress will do anything very much differently in the arena of Iraq and to rebuild the view of America in the world if and when they elect a Democrat as president ?
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 09:54 am
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;8189 wrote:
OK , I will rephrase my question .

Do you think the congress will do anything very much differently in the arena of Iraq and to rebuild the view of America in the world if and when they elect a Democrat as president ?


Hypothetically?

Just the shift of power to a more reasonable approach will go a long way to change their views of our policies. We are viewed as too anxious to use military power as a foreign policy tool.

I don't believe the Democrats have all the answers. I never thought they would. I do think Democrats are more open to policy changes.

Unless both parties get on the same page I don't see much change.

A lot can happen in two years.
0 Replies
 
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 03:45 pm
@Drnaline,
Thanks again for a reasoned response . This is the way we can discuss matters , rather than trading jabs at each other and demeaning characters .

A more reasonable approach surmises a considered approach . I now hope that the Democrats , in wielding their new found power will actually come up with new ideas now that their "anyone but Bush " effort is working .

So far , they have not shown us anything really new , just new ways of saying things . The legislation and policies they put forward will tell us more about their ability and likelihood of advancing the Liberal cause here and in the world .

My thoughts that politics need to be more centrist are still valid , in my opinion . Now we need those from both sides that run center to get elected , stay center when fostering policy .
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 05:40 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;8193 wrote:
Thanks again for a reasoned response . This is the way we can discuss matters , rather than trading jabs at each other and demeaning characters .

A more reasonable approach surmises a considered approach . I now hope that the Democrats , in wielding their new found power will actually come up with new ideas now that their "anyone but Bush " effort is working .

So far , they have not shown us anything really new , just new ways of saying things . The legislation and policies they put forward will tell us more about their ability and likelihood of advancing the Liberal cause here and in the world .

My thoughts that politics need to be more centrist are still valid , in my opinion . Now we need those from both sides that run center to get elected , stay center when fostering policy .


I don't want the liberals pushing their traditional agenda any more than anyone else. That's why I support the moderates who were elected this past election.

Given the recent event of a Democrat possably having a stroke, the balance may be a 50-50 tie.That will make it that much more interesting.
0 Replies
 
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 06:01 pm
@Drnaline,
I would never wish tragedy on anyone , but if he can't finish his term , the Republican governor is likely to nominate one of his own , and yes , that will make it interesting to say the least .
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 06:02 pm
@Drnaline,
"I don't want the liberals pushing their traditional agenda any more than anyone else. That's why I support the moderates who were elected this past election."

A very good response . I do hope the "moderates" who recently got elected stay moderate .
0 Replies
 
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 06:12 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;8195 wrote:
I would never wish tragedy on anyone , but if he can't finish his term , the Republican governor is likely to nominate one of his own , and yes , that will make it interesting to say the least .
It's still a breaking story but I agree,that if he has to be replaced it will be a Republican.

The first good think I have seen is the Democrats want to cut some of the pork. Even Robert Bird was on board, the biggest porker in the Senate.
0 Replies
 
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 07:51 pm
@Drnaline,
Yes , that is encouraging , but once again , I am unsure that the Democrats will stick to it .
tumbleweed cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 08:31 pm
@Curmudgeon,
The spot light is on them,so they can't make a move without drawing media attention. That's all they have going for them at this point.

People are expecting a lot of things from them. Most see old school liberals. I see them as a minority voice of the party.You're going to have the Kennedy Kerry,and Dean mouthpiece liberals, but the agenda they have ahead of them will slow pet projects.IMO.

I voted for 2 present Republican Senators, Snowe, and Collins, because they were moderates.They both have around 70% approval ratings of registered voters.

I favor moderates.
oleo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 03:39 pm
@tumbleweed cv,
Drnaline and Curmudgeon,

that article spells out what I've been saying here all along, as far as what
Al Qaeda, et al, think and ultimately want. It has nothing to do with reps or
dems.

They believe they, with the divine intervention of Allah, brought down the
Soviet Union by sustaining the war against them in Afghanistan.

Did they? They helped, with the assistance of Reagan's escalating cold war
spending to a point where the Soviets broke under the strain. The war in
Afghanistan did serve to weaken the hold the Soviet party had on the minds
of its subjects. It wasn't unstoppable or indefeatable... it couldn't conquer a
country living for all intents and purposes in the stone age. Those cracks
gave courage to people to criticize the communist state, and Gorbachev the
window to dissolve the Soviet Union, which had been held together, even at
the top, by fear of standing up to its might.

So, that was the end of the threat we convinced the mujhaddein they were
facing (the Soviet Union taking over their countries and, being Atheist,
outlawing Islam). Only, we didn't anticipate/understand that they live by
the rationale "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and that they viewed
us and our value system as just as much of a threat to Islam in the region.
Bin Laden is said to have remarked, at the end of that war, "blessed be Allah,
and let us now turn to the other infidel superpower, and expel them from our
lands."

So, they believe they can destroy America the same way, and get us to leave
the middle-east so that they may overthrow the governments of Saudi
Arabia, etc., and establish a giant Sunni Islamist state, and live the way they
believe Allah intended.

They do not understand an important thing about America, however. Unlike
the U.S.S.R., unlike the governments they grew up under or come into
contact with we are a liberal democracy, which does the will of the people
rather than dictate the will of the people. Democracy is flexible, and won't
so easily crumble (though Bush and his admin have done a good job of eroding
it in some instances). This isn't a kingdom that will shatter when the people
become disillusioned with the king. This is a democracy that will be strengthened
by changes in leadership, new viewpoints that take into account the mistakes
of the past.

There's a greater chance of harm coming from continuing the way things
are in Iraq than pulling out and regrouping. We are in the same trap the
Soviets were in (ironic since the C.I.A. deliberately lured them into that)
and we should honestly look at what happened to them as an example of how
to make the best of this situation.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 07:57 pm
@oleo,
oleo;8232 wrote:
Drnaline and Curmudgeon,

that article spells out what I've been saying here all along, as far as what
Al Qaeda, et al, think and ultimately want. It has nothing to do with reps or
dems.

They believe they, with the divine intervention of Allah, brought down the
Soviet Union by sustaining the war against them in Afghanistan.

Did they? They helped, with the assistance of Reagan's escalating cold war
spending to a point where the Soviets broke under the strain. The war in
Afghanistan did serve to weaken the hold the Soviet party had on the minds
of its subjects. It wasn't unstoppable or indefeatable... it couldn't conquer a
country living for all intents and purposes in the stone age. Those cracks
gave courage to people to criticize the communist state, and Gorbachev the
window to dissolve the Soviet Union, which had been held together, even at
the top, by fear of standing up to its might.

So, that was the end of the threat we convinced the mujhaddein they were
facing (the Soviet Union taking over their countries and, being Atheist,
outlawing Islam). Only, we didn't anticipate/understand that they live by
the rationale "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and that they viewed
us and our value system as just as much of a threat to Islam in the region.
Bin Laden is said to have remarked, at the end of that war, "blessed be Allah,
and let us now turn to the other infidel superpower, and expel them from our
lands."

So, they believe they can destroy America the same way, and get us to leave
the middle-east so that they may overthrow the governments of Saudi
Arabia, etc., and establish a giant Sunni Islamist state, and live the way they
believe Allah intended.

They do not understand an important thing about America, however. Unlike
the U.S.S.R., unlike the governments they grew up under or come into
contact with we are a liberal democracy, which does the will of the people
rather than dictate the will of the people. Democracy is flexible, and won't
so easily crumble (though Bush and his admin have done a good job of eroding
it in some instances). This isn't a kingdom that will shatter when the people
become disillusioned with the king. This is a democracy that will be strengthened
by changes in leadership, new viewpoints that take into account the mistakes
of the past.

There's a greater chance of harm coming from continuing the way things
are in Iraq than pulling out and regrouping. We are in the same trap the
Soviets were in (ironic since the C.I.A. deliberately lured them into that)
and we should honestly look at what happened to them as an example of how
to make the best of this situation.
Quote:
It wasn't unstoppable or indefeatable... it couldn't conquer a
country living for all intents and purposes in the stone age.


This isn't the same situation. Civilization has come about because of conquering stone age mentality.
Quote:
They do not understand an important thing about America, however. Unlike
the U.S.S.R., unlike the governments they grew up under or come into
contact with we are a liberal democracy, which does the will of the people
rather than dictate the will of the people.

That's ok, we helped when they needed it. That's what we do, that's what we are doing now. To this point they have dictated where they are at today, they are self run with many problems. Democracy ain't perfect but they will find out.
Quote:
Democracy is flexible, and won't
so easily crumble (though Bush and his admin have done a good job of eroding
it in some instances). This isn't a kingdom that will shatter when the people
become disillusioned with the king. This is a democracy that will be strengthened
by changes in leadership, new viewpoints that take into account the mistakes
of the past.

Tell me what strenght is derived from retreating? I don't think reflection is one of them, we have that now.
Quote:
There's a greater chance of harm coming from continuing the way things
are in Iraq than pulling out and regrouping.

Yeah right, how much ground are you will to retake from your regroup? Where do you think the front will be? Can you afford it being in the US? One unmistakable fact of this conflict is we have not been attacked again in five years, Every years since our engagement we consistanly lose less and less men. How many men are you willing to expend so you can sleep at night? How many for your girl? If we don't fight them there where are you willing to fight them? Harm is upon us, your just having problems figuring who's on the other side of the door.
Quote:
We are in the same trap the
Soviets were in (ironic since the C.I.A. deliberately lured them into that)
and we should honestly look at what happened to them as an example of how
to make the best of this situation.

Same trap i think not. We have taken the fight to them and they are flocking to the site. Is the fight over, by no means! Will it continue, damn straight. Whether you and I like it or not. If it's not us pushing them they will be pushing us.
We will and have looked at what happened to them, Our advantage point is unincumbered. From a citizen point of view.
 

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