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Why is Communism So Opposed?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2010 06:54 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper wrote:

xris wrote:
Taxation is a demand made by the electorate not forced by government.


Well I don't think that 2 people voting to rob a 3rd person is much of a democracy. The fact that the majority approves of something doesn't mean it's alright to trample on the liberties of the minority.

xris wrote:
You tell me one society that does not require to pool its resources, in fact or in an imagined state.


Why do you think pooling resources can only happen by force? Private investors pool their resources all the time. Do you really think the only way people will work together is at gunpoint? That's what you're advocating by the way. If I don't pay my property taxes, eventually someone with a gun will show up and force me out of my home. That's what you're pushing for, armed robbery.

Now I assume instead of addressing the injustice of forcing people to pay taxes against their will, you'll try to justify it by listing all the wonderful services they will receive in turn. It's like a robber buying me something nice with my own money and then expecting me to be grateful.
I 've gotta say, N.R., my perception of the situation
co-incides rather closely with your own. I admire your powers of analysis & articulation.





David
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 04:17 am
@Night Ripper,
You are condemning one system without the invention of a better one. Tell me how would you survive without the support of your fellow citizens in an anarchy. Do you think ever soul in an anarchic community is an independent entity? systems develop, agreements are made, services are justified and a community requires support. You cant condemn democracy till you give good reason to change it. Democracy is best we can hope for , its pragmatic and accepts the benefits outweigh the pit falls.
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 07:24 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
Tell me how would you survive without the support of your fellow citizens in an anarchy.


You don't understand anarchy. There's nothing stopping my fellow citizens from voluntarily helping me.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 07:28 am
@Night Ripper,
Then would they do it voluntary ?
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 07:32 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
Then would they do it voluntary ?


Of course they would. The fact that we have laws right now that are designed to help other people means that THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ALREADY WANT TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE. They voted for it after all. The only downside is when you force the minority of people to help when they don't want to.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 07:46 am
@Night Ripper,
So when you have a minority that does not like what the majority have decided then you think anarchy would resolve the problem...I don't think so.
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 07:50 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
So when you have a minority that does not like what the majority have decided then you think anarchy would resolve the problem...I don't think so.


If the minority doesn't like what the majority has decided then, under anarchy, the minority doesn't have to participate. That's as good of a resolution as we can hope for. Anarchy isn't a utopia nor does it require one.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 08:04 am
@Night Ripper,
Give me the scenario when by common consent the individual does not need to contribute...Lets say they are being attacked by a neighbouring democratic tribe? Or your grain harvest had failed and your children are dying of hunger.
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 08:10 am
@xris,
xris wrote:

Give me the scenario when by common consent the individual does not need to contribute...Lets say they are being attacked by a neighbouring democratic tribe? Or your grain harvest had failed and your children are dying of hunger.


Your question doesn't make sense to me. Can you rephrase it? I'm not sure what you're asking, sorry.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 09:05 am
@Night Ripper,
Im wondering in this anarchy , assuming your living in a community, do they ever agree on a common policy? If they agree to defend this community can one say I don't want to?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 10:37 am
@xris,

ANARCHY means: "NO government"; we begin with that premise.

xris wrote:
Im wondering in this anarchy,
assuming your living in a community, do they ever agree on a common policy?
If there is a consensus, then the members of that consensus will do what thay choose to do.

Those who do not join in the consensus,
will do as thay choose and will not do, as thay don't choose.






xris wrote:
If they agree to defend this community can one say I don't want to?
DEFINITIONALLY: yes. Were it otherwise, there 'd be a government to interefere in his decision.





David
xris
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 12:23 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
And what response do you think they, those who chose not to fight, would get from those who laid down their lives for the community? We live by agreements, its essential we all stand together or our weakness prevails. By the way big words do not make any more impact in a debate.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 01:53 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
And what response do you think they, those who chose not to fight,
would get from those who laid down their lives for the community?
I think thay 'd get NO response from those who laid down their lives.


xris wrote:
We live by agreements, its essential we all stand together or our weakness prevails.
Were there AGREEMENTS within the anarchy? I missed that part.




xris wrote:
By the way big words do not make any more impact in a debate.
Is this better ?





David
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 02:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I think you are begining to understand the weakness of the anarchic argument . You say they make agreements one minute but then they dont. Now you decide do they or dont they?

Laying down your life is an offer, it may not be required...So your community is threatened with invasion..what do you do?

Just the regular size script is ok with me...
Night Ripper
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 03:25 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
I think you are begining to understand the weakness of the anarchic argument . You say they make agreements one minute but then they dont. Now you decide do they or dont they


The difference between anarchy and all other forms of government is that anarchy is entirely voluntary. Agreements are the cornerstone of anarchy so if you think no agreements are involved in anarchy then you don't understand anarchy.

When I get a mortgage, I agree to allow the loan company to enforce that loan, even taking my property away from me. Property taxes were never agreed to by me. That's the difference.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 03:37 pm
@Night Ripper,
I understand the principles but the reality is far from clear..That's why I ask questions and you are not able to answer them.
Night Ripper
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 09:07 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:

I understand the principles but the reality is far from clear..That's why I ask questions and you are not able to answer them.


I've answered all your questions. If you think otherwise then do something productive and repeat what question I haven't answered.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 11:59 am
@Night Ripper,
Your threatened with invasion , what do you do? This question for starters....
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 01:55 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Your threatened with invasion , what do you do? This question for starters....


In an anarchistic society, the government doesn't have a monopoly on violence so there are several private police forces. Each police force offers its customers services at a certain market price and they compete with each other to provide the best service.

So, what would I do? I'd call some police, rather than "the" police.

By the way, if I pay for a private police service, they have a contractual obligation to protect me. That's something you can't say for our government police. They have no obligation to protect you. If a criminal attacks you and the police refuse to help you then you can't even sue them.

See the case Hartzler v. City of San Jose @ http://www.lawlink.com/research/CaseLevel3/51629 for a real laugh. The police owe you exactly nothing. Let's just hope they are in a good mood if you are invaded.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 02:57 pm
@Night Ripper,
Invasion, not some jerk threatening your property, your community is under attack from a foreign invader,what do you do?
 

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