Why is Communism So Opposed?

@xris,

xris wrote:

Sucker to me sounds like a extreme abusive retort. Or did you think it would sail past me unnoticed?

Having read Night Ripper 's post,
I see that he referred to citizens who allowed government
to create monopolies being suckers for doing so.

He did not call u a "sucker."

He will correct me, if he chooses to.

David

1 Reply

@Night Ripper,

who said anything about a societies using renewables? I can give you working examples of socialists states but you cant anarchistic.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

So when the weak get exploited its voluntary on their part? excellent attitude..Nice little community you envisage, where only the able survive.
I love freedom ,I will fight for its ability but its not freedom when capitalism is allowed to exploit its strength against those less able. Its freedom for the successful at the expense of the less able. Revenge is when the exploitation becomes too unbearable and you have the exploited taking violent action . For example, Nestles exploited the African cocoa bean growers for decades, the growers had no where else to take their produce. Free trade needs to be ethically moderated to ensure the powerful do not exploit its market position.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

So you think government should control monopolies? restrict their ability? Excellent, my opinion exactly.

0 Replies

@xris,

xris wrote:

I can give you working examples of socialists states but you cant anarchistic.

Which demonstrates exactly nothing. Like I said, there are no societies using only renewable resources but just because I can't provide an example doesn't mean it can't work or is impossible.

There has been no real trial of anarchy so there's no way you can say it doesn't work. Any other arguments? They've all been demolished thus far.

2 Replies

@Night Ripper,

What has renewable got to do with this debate. It was you that requested I gave working examples of socialism. There has been examples of anarchy and not once have they benefited the poorest or the least able. I'm sure if you want only the survival of the fittest beast, then it is a very good system , I just assumed we had been trying to drag ourselves out of that particular jungle.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

It was you that requested I gave working examples of socialism.

Please quote where I asked for that because I'm sure I didn't. I simply pointed out that socialism has been tried and has failed in specific cases while anarchy has never even been tried. Yet, you are so certain that anarchy will fail.

The renewable resources analogy is meant to show the flaw in your argument. Just because there are no examples of X doesn't mean that X can't work. End of story.

1 Reply

@Night Ripper,

Socialism has had its successes, take Norway for instance, most European societies are socialist in concept, they abide by socialist principles. Anarchy has occurred several times , take the occasion when the Romans left Briton. It resulted in warring tribes , the dark ages and an inability to fend of attacking Saxons.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

Socialism has had its successes, take Norway for instance, most European societies are socialist in concept, they abide by socialist principles. Anarchy has occurred several times , take the occasion when the Romans left Briton. It resulted in warring tribes , the dark ages and an inability to fend of attacking Saxons.

You're comparing deliberate attempts based on principles with failed states based on circumstance. There's never been a society that banded together under the principles of anarchy, self-ownership and non-aggression. These are non-examples of anarchy. Let me know when an anarchist society has tried to make a real go of it and failed. Then, you will have me convinced. Until then, it's wait and see.

2 Replies

@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper wrote:

There has been no real trial of anarchy so there's no way you can say it doesn't work. Any other arguments? They've all been demolished thus far.

"No real trial" cuts both ways though. We can't say it doesn't work, but by the same token, you can't say that it does. You are comparing an untested figment of your political imagination with a system that has been tested, has been found to work better than everything else that has been tested, but isn't perfect. And---suprise, surprise!---the figment of your imagination looks more attractive.

1 Reply

@Night Ripper,

When does a society ever form through a preconceived ideological mandate with the full cooperation of its citizens. Shangri La exists only in mans imagination, describing a Utopian society is pure fiction. There will always be one who wants to rob or extort more than his worth. Neighbours will always be knocking on the door intimidating you. An anarchic state is just like the communist envisaged community, OK if you don't have humans controlling the system.

1 Reply

I offer my purest candor n sincerity in assuring u that I have never
had any nabor knock on my door in an endeavor to intimidate me.

David

1 Reply

@Night Ripper,

Haitï, after the French got kicked out together with the mixed middle class. Beginning of 19 th century.

Gaza strip end of 20th century but is mixed with religion.

0 Replies

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

We can't say it doesn't work, but by the same token, you can't say that it does.

I can say that there is nothing in principle from stopping it from working just like there is nothing in principle stopping us from using only renewable resources. Saying that X has never been done isn't an argument for why X shouldn't or can't happen.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

When does a society ever form through a preconceived ideological mandate with the full cooperation of its citizens.

You're the one demanding unrealistic "full" cooperation which doesn't even exist in democracy. No, I envision the shift away from forced taxation happening in a similar manner as the abolition of slavery.

Slavery wasn't loved by everyone one day and hated by everyone the next day. It took a lot of time, mainly through moratoriums, heart-felt stories about oppression, etc.

What are the results today? Is there anyone that believes we should reinstate slavery? It's amazing how our society has magically cooperated under this ideology when a few hundred years ago most people didn't think much of slavery either way.

2 Replies

@Night Ripper,

xris wrote:

When does a society ever form through a preconceived ideological mandate with the full cooperation of its citizens.

Night Ripper wrote:

You're the one demanding unrealistic "full" cooperation which doesn't even exist in democracy. No, I envision the shift away from forced taxation happening in a similar manner as the abolition of slavery.

Slavery wasn't loved by everyone one day and hated by everyone the next day. It took a lot of time, mainly through moratoriums, heart-felt stories about oppression, etc.

What are the results today? Is there anyone that believes we should reinstate slavery? It's amazing how our society has magically cooperated under this ideology when a few hundred years ago most people didn't think much of slavery either way.

AGREED.

David

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

That's because you dont live in anarchy, you have the law to protect you.

0 Replies

@Night Ripper,

Taxation is a demand made by the electorate not forced by government. You tell me one society that does not require to pool its resources, in fact or in an imagined state. Im not demanding "full" cooperation, when did I say such a thing?

1 Reply

@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper wrote:

I can say that there is nothing in principle from stopping it from working

No you can't. The most you can say is that you see nothing in principle that would stop it from working. But just because you don't see it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

0 Replies

@xris,

xris wrote:

Taxation is a demand made by the electorate not forced by government.

Well I don't think that 2 people voting to rob a 3rd person is much of a democracy. The fact that the majority approves of something doesn't mean it's alright to trample on the liberties of the minority.

xris wrote:

You tell me one society that does not require to pool its resources, in fact or in an imagined state.

Why do you think pooling resources can only happen by force? Private investors pool their resources all the time. Do you really think the only way people will work together is at gunpoint? That's what you're advocating by the way. If I don't pay my property taxes, eventually someone with a gun will show up and force me out of my home. That's what you're pushing for, armed robbery.

Now I assume instead of addressing the injustice of forcing people to pay taxes against their will, you'll try to justify it by listing all the wonderful services they will receive in turn. It's like a robber buying me something nice with my own money and then expecting me to be grateful.

2 Replies

Why is Communism So Opposed?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know