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When does the past no longer effect the present?

 
 
Wozz
 
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:13 am
With the World Cup starting and 32 countries being more proud now than ever in the past 3 years I had a question that I wanted insight on. When does Germany's past no long affect the way the world looks at them now? Maybe not everyone automatically thinks of WW2 when they talk to Germans but at what point are we doing more harm to them by doing this? I just had a very funny experience last night when I wore my new Germany jersey to a sports bar and was wondering what the great thinkers here thought. This isn't meant to offend anyone or make anyone upset either. Thanks everyone!
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Type: Question • Score: 11 • Views: 3,140 • Replies: 16
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William
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:42 am
When does the past no longer effect the present?

When we come to realize it doesn't exist anymore. When we go into the past we retard forward momentum. It takes faith to sail on without latching on to an anchor that will hold you in what you think is a safe harbor.

William
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 04:44 am
@Wozz,
In court its a rule that past performance is often inadmissible
William
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:23 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

In court its a rule that past performance is often inadmissible


Hello Farmerman. As for as the court, they will hold what you say and do against you regarding those past performances huh! It is interesting isn't it that you have to have a mouthpiece that speaks the language that only that court can understand. Someone admitted you to that court and now it is inadmissible to hear what anyone else has heard or said.

Oh, by the way regarding your signature. That's quite a crystal ball you have there. Let us all hope it's not a magnifying glass. Ha!

William

CD1979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 06:20 am
Hi,

People around the world perceive Germany as they see it in the news, with Angela Merkel. And the rest of the day they don't think about Germany at all. Unless they are in the proces of reading history, but they know it is history. And after reading about it they might think about it. But I think there are very very very few people around the world who wouls base their judgment of a modern day German on their knowledge of the History of German state.
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 07:58 am
@Wozz,
"When does the past no longer effect the present?"

Never. There'll never be a time where what's come before will have had no effect on the present. There might be "pasts" that are greatly disconnected from what's happening <here> or <there>. But the elusive present is built on the past, as will the future be.

... had to imagine it another way.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 03:36 pm
@Wozz,
It depends on whom the past actions of Germany affected. In Asia there is nil regarding German action in WW2 was a continent away but the Japanese were not forgotten by the Koreans, Chinese, the British, Dutch (Movie: The Bridge on the River Kwai) and Americans (Pearl harbour and Iwo Jima). With each succeeding generation the memory fades. Generations X,Y and Z probably couldn't care less. However, the Jews would never forget as their creed is an 'eye for an eye' and whole generations were slaughtered.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:14 pm
Are we to bother a guy in a German t-shirt because of something some of the grandparents of today's adult German generation did 70 years ago? Isn't it a bit ridiculous?
0 Replies
 
Jebediah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:17 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:

"When does the past no longer effect the present?"

Never. There'll never be a time where what's come before will have had no effect on the present. There might be "pasts" that are greatly disconnected from what's happening <here> or <there>. But the elusive present is built on the past, as will the future be.

... had to imagine it another way.


The question is "when does our knowledge of an event that happened in the past no longer effect the way we we think about the world" I think. It's obviously not a fixed length of time because some events have large impacts and some don't. I think generations are one way to measure it though, people who were living during WWII are going to remember the most, people who had parents that fought in world war II the next most, and so on. Eventually it fades.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 11:59 pm
@Jebediah,
Jebediah wrote:

Khethil wrote:

"When does the past no longer effect the present?"

Never. There'll never be a time where what's come before will have had no effect on the present. There might be "pasts" that are greatly disconnected from what's happening <here> or <there>. But the elusive present is built on the past, as will the future be.

... had to imagine it another way.




The question is "when does our knowledge of an event that happened in the past no longer effect the way we we think about the world" I think. It's obviously not a fixed length of time because some events have large impacts and some don't. I think generations are one way to measure it though, people who were living during WWII are going to remember the most, people who had parents that fought in world war II the next most, and so on. Eventually it fades.


The past is rolled into a gestalt type communal experience. In this example of Germany's past. Those events shaped the lives and, experiences, and ideologies of millions. The remnants of that will echo through all of the future in the ideological bundle that emanates from it. The specifics of Germany, or Germany itself may be long forgotten, but what happened there will still be a part of everyone's future, in spite of the fact that they do not know why they believe the way that they do.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 12:49 am
@William,
William wrote:


Oh, by the way regarding your signature. That's quite a crystal ball you have there. Let us all hope it's not a magnifying glass. Ha!

William



Oh, thank God you brought that up, William. For awhile, I thought he was saying millions of years. You cannot imagine my relief.
0 Replies
 
Razzleg
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 02:42 am
@Khethil,
What an interesting concept of time!

The term "never" seems to correspond to a negative concept of eternity. To what model might your concept of time correspond to, if any?

a.) A circular pattern in which the past and the future represent different aspects of the same possibilties, and the present an arbitrary mark upon this line.

b.) The finite past filtered by a present into distinct future possibilities.

c.) A present "vortex" created by the "impact" upon the potential past upon a possiblel future.

I would appreciate it if you would please try to describe your concept. I assume that I will come off as not making any sense , whatsoever. However, if you have a model, even if it differs from all of these; I would appreciate your trying to formulate it...
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 06:51 am
@Jebediah,
Jebediah wrote:

Khethil wrote:

"When does the past no longer effect the present?"

Never. There'll never be a time where what's come before will have had no effect on the present. There might be "pasts" that are greatly disconnected from what's happening <here> or <there>. But the elusive present is built on the past, as will the future be.

... had to imagine it another way.


The question is "when does our knowledge of an event that happened in the past no longer effect the way we we think about the world" I think. It's obviously not a fixed length of time because some events have large impacts and some don't. I think generations are one way to measure it though, people who were living during WWII are going to remember the most, people who had parents that fought in world war II the next most, and so on. Eventually it fades.


Ah yes, that's quite different.

I'd think one could still make a good argument that knowledge of <something>, at a point in time, might never cease in its effects on how we think about the world; I'm not sure I'd wanna try and justify that, so I'll side with you that the effect likely fades.

Interesting - thanks for the clarification
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 07:04 am
@Razzleg,
Hey Razz, Well met...

Razzleg wrote:
I would appreciate it if you would please try to describe your concept. I assume that I will come off as not making any sense , whatsoever. However, if you have a model, even if it differs from all of these; I would appreciate your trying to formulate it...

As has just been pointed out, it seems I've taken the context a bit off center here; apologies. Alone, this topic asks "When does the past no longer effect the present?" - which is quite open and absolute; and to my mind (without narrowing the question any more), prompts a "never" response. Events, changes, actions, reactions and even thought are built upon what was before, each new factor altering the original - or previous - object (for each). Looking at it this way; since no "present" exists without a "past" on which to change, alter or effect, logically the answer would be "there is not a present that has not been effected by the past".

But re-reading the original post, the context of that same question gets narrowed to:
Wozz wrote:
... When does Germany's past no long affect the way the world looks at them now?

... which is certainly different; bringing in how human memory (cultural/historical) affects how one views their nation/society.

Thanks, sorry bout that
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 07:11 am
when i think of WW2 i think of the Nazis and Imperial Japan, not the entities that exist today, the rise of a Nazi type party and it's influence on people could happen anywhere anytime
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 03:22 pm
Another way to look at it is that we would not be here at least the majority of us. Our parents would not have met someone else if there was no
WWII. They would have met someone else and they would have children but it would not be us. The 50 million who died because of the war would have lived and met our parents and things would have be different. However, it was the war that lifted the world from the Great Depression so there would still be economic problems of unemployment and poverty. Very different world. They would still be big wars as Nuclear bombs were created because of the WWII.
0 Replies
 
Sentience
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 06:30 pm
@Wozz,
It is of my opinion that, simply mathematically and by the logic of causality, the past will ALWAYS effect the present. However, I see the point you're more trying to state, 'how long before we stop consciously associating people with their past events,' and honestly, I cannot say. I'd say we've come close to the point where we won't automatically consciously associate Germans with the Holocaust and WWII, but that does not mean it doesn't effect how we perceive them and their culture (WWI factoring in as well). It will be a long time before the (arguable) mark of the most tragic event in known history is erased, and perhaps for good reason. I do not wish infinite guilt upon the Germans who were not involved, but if people can see how far the repercussions it created and how Germany was viewed afterward, they would definitely think twice before doing something even close to what Nazi Germany did.
0 Replies
 
 

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