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Why People Seek Solace In Gods.

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:00 pm
@Oldmike,
Quote:
Now you're not using reason and logic. Not believing in a creator is like believing that a car in a parking lot just came about through random events. I cannot say with absolute certainty that there is a god that created everything, but the world and universe are just too complex to be a random occurrence. My believing this doesn't mean I believe he, she or it is involved in the events of the world, or that god still is alive.



You seem to believe in something that takes a grater leap of faith than me!
You believe that a single God can just exist? This God has all the ability to know all things.

The way I see it is that you believe that everything complex can be put into one box {God} and do what ever he wishes to do!

I do somewhat go into a leap of faith myself thinking that it could be that all things just exist for some unknown reasons without any controlled order every thing just happens randomly in no certain order. It happens to be that there is so much randomness going on that we just happen to exist.
Sorry but I am not absolute in my thinking like you are about your creator!

I probably should rephrase that because I do think things have order it is just that we do not understand all of these orders !
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:05 pm
@Oldmike,
Not trying to insult you, but it seems incongruous to me how you can still believe in a creator with all the supporting evidence through science of what happens to life forms. I'm curious to learn where "you're coming from."

It's my contention and personal opinion that the understanding of the fundamentals of all science available to humans, and what they support according to known information, supersedes "the mystery of origin."

We're talking about a 4.5 billion year lifespan for our planet; there's bound to be unknowns when science is young in human terms.
Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
RL, I ONLY believe that something smarter and more powerful than a human created what we see. I don't believe that god "has the ability to know all things". I just simply believe that this something we call earth and life just happened. I think t takes more faith to believe it all just happened by chance.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:21 pm
@Oldmike,
I can not say for sure but I would think that you might agree with me. "that what ever you believe created this just happen to come by chance or something that we do not under stand! It just has always been, "no beginning.
Or do you believe that Your creator also had to be created because something like him just could not exist by itself, something had to create the creator because he is to complex to just exist correct?
Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI, I didn't really think you were trying to insult me, and should not have alluded that you were; sorry. I am an architect. In my world of work (which is much less complex than this universe) things don't just happen. Buildings are complicated, and getting more complicated by the year, and it takes a designer to come up with the structure and plans to make it work. I just can't bring myself to look at nature and science and believe its complexities and beauty are random chance. Just look at any part of the human body. Take the ear (you know science) it is so well design to accomplish its function. The same goes with every part of our bodies.
That being said, I don't like the state of affairs that this creator has left us with. I don't know if he, she or it is even around or alive. If god is watching then he is not the "good" god that most religions make him, her or it out to be. OR I am just dense.
Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:26 pm
@reasoning logic,
RI, I am not able (with my limited intelligence) to grapple with the god I believe in, much less where he, she or it came from.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:28 pm
@Oldmike,
Quote:
OR I am just dense


Bingo! Join the club. None of us have the answers we just make things up for the things that we do not comprehend! Do you think that we could have made up a god? Or do you have an absolute understanding of how our minds work?

Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:35 pm
@reasoning logic,
RL, someone thought of god at some point in time. It is a logical thought. We don't look around our world and just hope a house appears for use to live in or dinner gets made. We "make" them happen because things don't just happen. I didn't make up god. I resisted the idea of god for 28 years. Then I realized that myself and other humans around me were ignoring the obvious and "not thinking about it". When I did start thinking about it, I said to myself, "there has to be something or someone who is responsible".
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:47 pm
@Oldmike,
Maybe this will help, there are many explanations out there pick one!

Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:56 pm
@reasoning logic,
RL, I did pick one; creation by a powerfully intelligent something I call god. I have a responsibility to myself to do so. An irresponsible person ignores the origins of life and does not make a decision.
I reserve the right to revisit my decision, but am satisfied enough with it at this point not to explore ALL the possibilities. My big issue now is "living it with meaning".
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:58 pm
@Oldmike,
have you studied what science thinks is the origins of life? {organic chemistry}
Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 02:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
I don't think that will be a productive answer for "causation". Where did the organisms come from (a creator)? It doesn't matter how it came about (means and methods), but what matters is who or what decided to and did cause it. I can't believe it "just happened" by chance. Do you see where I'm coming from?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 02:14 pm
@Oldmike,
Do you think that a creator can just come from nothing or do you think that even a creator has to be created?
Some things are beyond our comprehension but should we try and make those things into things that we can not prove? I see nothing wrong with having a creative imagination but I do like to let everyone know that this is the best of my understanding and that I can be wrong!
What do you think about this young lady's imagination?


Imagine!

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 02:17 pm
@Oldmike,
Fair enough! I also wondered about those things myself; how fauna was able to develop eyes, ears, nose, and the other biology that makes for a somewhat "complete" package to survive.

Life is fascinating; there are life forms that live near the seafloor where volcanic (hydrothermal) activity keeps the temperatures so hot that it would otherwise "cook" or kill other living organisms. Organisms live by these thermal hotspots without the need for the sun.

Yes, there are many unanswered q's about life on earth, but I also believe that human's curiosity will increase knowledge about this planet in the future.

Origin of life? Who knows.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
see to me, simply put...in MY experiences...I too, agree with Mike and believe in a nutshell it is just simply MORE plausible that every single intricit thing that exhists today evolved from something living or adomate than to believe that everything exhists and or was created from inadomatacy...

sorry i understand contexts or words, but my vocabulary is bad...please bare with me...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I have read a lot about different religions, and HAVE NOT read a lot on the beliefs as to science. or scientology for example...some may see that as a flaw in me...( I personally wouldn't judge another based on these types of qualities) but rather on there actions, and how they live there lives in accordance to what they speak of...A TRUE indication if someone is a possitive force in the world... but from my visions and dreams...I personally don't even need to go down that path to entice certain indulgances as to try to disprove God exhists...or that life sprang inatomatitly ...which to ME AND MYSELF I wouldn't want to do so...I PERSONALLY have been shown easily WITHOUT A DOUBT that a higher being exhists...therefor don't question certain things in the universe...or don't feel compelled to EVER DO SO...

another example...if I look at you, I can see you and you can see me...in the flesh...but if we learn to understand one another and have a friendship...then we see things in each other such as inner beauty...there is NO way to prove these feelings or insight...or consciounceness exhists...but we ALL know we have one and use it wisely most times...things such as this to me just provide more evidence or simply makes it MORE plauseable for me to BELIEVE in a HIGHER BEING...than again, to believe things that exhist but are unexplainable sprang from nothingness...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:10 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
There is nothing I find fault in your outlook of living; IMHO that's more important than trying to tie down what belief one has in religion and/or politics.

However, I have no tolerance for bigotry of any kind. I find ignorance in such intolerance of others based on some man-made groupings that has no basis in reality.

You're new to a2k, so I'll repeat this for your benefit. All my siblings are christians, and I'm an atheist. They are married to christians, and I'm married to a buddhist. We argue about religion and politics often.

I participate on a2k, because of its entertainment and educational value. It also keeps me on my toes when discussion important issues of the today.

I'm offensive only to those who repeat ignorance even when evidence is provided to prove otherwise. I have very little patience for stupidity.

Otherwise, I'm an easy going old man who enjoys world travel.

XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:44 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
also to me...there is a BIG difference in knowledge and wisdom...knowledge only goes as far as one strives to understand and can comprehend...where as wisdom can be infinate...knowledge you can go your whole life seeking as much knowledge as you can concievebly grasp possible...and NEVER understand it all...that's wisdom to grasp this concept at a young age...simply because time is not on our side, or our own poor reasonings etc to grasp ALL knowledge that exhists...so with this being said, it makes more sense to accept wisdom and your infinatly smarter to begin with and end with...wisdom is having true incite as to codes of acceptable conduct and understanding of the belief in things exhist or can exhist, (In God) (afterlife) (etc) WITHOUT humans understanding how they do so....so it is infinalty BETTER for ALL to have NO knowledge but except God, than it is to grasp ALL aspects of knowledge and NOT except God in your life...simply again because time and other factors PROVE grasping ALL knowledge is impossible...so therefor, if you believe in grasping all knowledge in your life, you WILL FAIL! and if the world sprang inatomatly it could very easily be destroyed...therefor, if we die and nothing exsists after death...it proves humans were in fact dumb and not worthy of eternal life to begin with...we sought after ALL knowledge we could grasp but yet know we won't exhist forever...and except no afterlife for us to share knowledge in...so with that if the Bible is correct, if we grasp wisdom, then hear never ending preachings in Heaven...proves wisdom IS eternal...and is infinate....
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
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Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I am glad for you, and respect having insightful conversations with you, and other Atheists, Agnostics, or even believers...if i have offended you in ANY way i apologize sincinerely, I do value all's perspective as well as yours and wish to continue discussing here...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 11:18 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I just noticed what your talking about cic...and am so sorry...I am new here, and it was a mistake...I thank you for pointing out my mistake, and for the future, will respond to myself so that I learn from the mistake...and don't do it again...
0 Replies
 
 

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