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Why People Seek Solace In Gods.

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:01 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
How self-serving; many cultures did not even know about christianity, but their culture was well advanced compared to others. You probably only studied christianity and the bible. Try studying other philosophers and teachers such as Confucius; you might learn something of value.

Confucius was a social philosopher who believed in personal and government ethics. He lived some 400BC. Yea, that was quite a few centuries before your jesus came on the scene.

Your myopia only proves how limited you are in your understanding of humanity and societies.

The rest of your claims lack logic.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
How self-serving; many cultures did not even know about christianity, but their culture was well advanced compared to others. You probably only studied christianity and the bible. Try studying other philosophers and teachers such as Confucius; you might learn something of value.

Confucius was a social philosopher who believed in personal and government ethics. He lived some 400BC. Yea, that was quite a few centuries before your jesus came on the scene.

Your myopia only proves how limited you are in your understanding of humanity and societies.

The rest of your claims lack logic.

I have read up on other philosophies actually before i realized Christ is the answer...as far as Confucious and his beliefs in goverment ethics and personal ethics...from confucious himself...


“There are three things which the WISE man holds in reverence: the Will of HEAVEN!, those in authority, and the words of the sages. (to me he's talking about what Christians call Prophets) The fool knows not the Will of Heaven and holds it not in reverence: he is disrespectful to those in authority; he ridicules the words of the sages.1

“Confucius said: ‘When the Empire is WELL governed, ceremonies and music and warlike operations are controlled by the SON OF HEAVEN! (JESUS!). When the Empire is in DISORDER, these things are controlled by the feudal princes, and will SELDOM OUTLAST ten generations.’2

“The Master said: ‘He who does not understand the Will of GOD can never be a man of the higher type. He who does not understand the inner law of self-control can never stand firm. He who does not understand the force of words can never know his fellow-men.’”3...

he asked me to prove to answer and i did being very simple...the easiest way to grasp knowledge, and understand truth...also I would say that the Old testament it self is at least 4-5000 yrs Before Confucious. or ANY philosopher...and confuscious himself was in fact NOT against the Prophets, and things pertaining to the Bible... which you claim to be, but don't see yourself as divided?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:33 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
The "will of heaven" had another context than does the christian "heaven." There was no "savior" who forgave sins, or the threat of hell if one failed to live by the rules of the christian god. As I've said often, man created gods long before jesus was ever "created" by man.

You fail again in your ability to interpret any of the religions outside your own. The context of "their" god is not the same as the christian god.
Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:34 am
@Krumple,
I love your answer to 6 ! ! !
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:38 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Do you think that you can be wrong in your understanding?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:40 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
The original teaching of the highest principle, Tao, "about which nothing can be said", is also the original unity before the separation of the polarities Yin and Yang*) and after that of the "5 elements"*. , This original unity is that which is behind the manifestations of the universe.


It has nothing to do with your "god."
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
since i don't understand...i am openminded..please explain it to me then...if it's another context why did he specifically use the word Heaven listed in the old testament...which was before him...and not CORRECT it? if you could even prove that he somehow doesn't mean one and the same place? who is he referring to in Sages? if not Prophets being one and the same just his description or name for the same people who exhist? and who is the Son of Heaven if not Jesus?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
The original teaching of the highest principle, Tao, "about which nothing can be said", is also the original unity before the separation of the polarities Yin and Yang*) and after that of the "5 elements"*. , This original unity is that which is behind the manifestations of the universe.


It has nothing to do with your "god."






I will be the first to admit that you are now in a territory that I am not familiar with!
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:46 am
@reasoning logic,
absolutly 100% i can be wrong...but if your on the other side than absolutly 100% you could be wrong...or we agree in areas and disagree on others in which case one is right and one is wrong or we both can be wrong...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 09:56 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
You seem to speak in absolutes about God and Jesus! Can you be absolutely certain that they even exist?
If a God can just exist why wouldn't you think we could just exist?

If God wanted you to know with certainty do you think he could have put the bible in-full into your brain so that you would not be without certainty?
Could he have put it in there in such away that it is not subject to interpretation?
Meaning that all Christians would agree as to what is meant!
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:06 am
@reasoning logic,
I think we ALL can agree with if God was in the flesh...there is none other ever that showed it more than Jesus...for he was clean, and had the power to condem...but in EVERY instance he gave pardon and piece to people...even to the point of forgiving the ones who killed him...if God ever did walk the earth...who better exzemplifies that than Christ himself? he says, I didn't come to condem the world but rather save it...how else would it be done and better be exzemplefied than Christ's life?
Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:12 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
There is such a thing as "truth", but knowing what the truth is beyond any doubt is an impossibility. I heard it said that if you believe you took some medicine, but really took poison; just believing won't change the fact that you took poison. Believing something is truth doesn't make it truth.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:28 am
@reasoning logic,
You seem to speak in absolutes about God and Jesus! Can you be absolutely certain that they even exist?

Yes!

If a God can just exist why wouldn't you think we could just exist?

God is immortal therefore HE can do immortal things, we are not immortal here therefore I don't believe we as HUMANS can do immortal things...


If God wanted you to know with certainty do you think he could have put the bible in-full into your brain so that you would not be without certainty?

Absolutly he could have, but without certainty instills faith in him...and free will, etc...things that show TRUE devoution in the end as for approval for eternal life...


Could he have put it in there in such away that it is not subject to interpretation?

yes, but God himself reveals himself different to EVERYONE...therefor proving, we DESERVE to now (Heaven) be like him and one...if we conquer differances and tests and tribulations than we can unite....it wouldn't exhist or lose a lot of merit the other way around...


Meaning that all Christians would agree as to what is meant!

if that's the case, would a non Christian be more apt to believe the Christains? or would others just outright reject all Christians all together?, therefore, if Christianity is correct...rendering others shouldn't be given ample time and hence forth, Christians are already God like, therefore no need for God to exhist, no passing tests, no way to show true devoution toward God...and we would only be the ones in the end saved?...and others who CHOOSE on there OWN to DISAGREE should be struck down and killed instantly with no ample opertunities?...if that's your point, should we all just be Christian and understand it all to begin with is a better question, but then again no way of showing true devoution to the living God...henceforth no reason for God or Heaven to exhist...no exceptance of God...utter lack of understand and wisdom to begin with...no order in the end...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:36 am
@Oldmike,
There is such a thing as "truth", but knowing what the truth is beyond any doubt is an impossibility. I heard it said that if you believe you took some medicine, but really took poison; just believing won't change the fact that you took poison. Believing something is truth doesn't make it truth.

I can't say it anyway else...I disagree completely...from what I have experienced in my life if there is any absolute truth to anything, ever, in my eyes it is that a God does in fact exhist...with your above analogy...if we all knew it was poison because it said poison on the bottle, and we all knew what poison was or is...if we drank it, can we not agree that an absolute truth is that we all know before drinking it we might in fact get sick or die by drinking it??
Oldmike
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:47 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
My friend, you misread what I said. I said "if you believed you took medicine". Let me say it another way. If you picked up a bottle that was labeled medicine and took some, but in fact there was only poison inside, then just believing you took medicine doesn't make it medicine.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 10:51 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
How do you know with certainty, that what you know about Jesus is true?

Maybe we gave it a spin over time. some people may have done it on accident while others did it on purpose.

We have shown just how ignorant and deceiving us humans can be throughout history!

Here is my spin can you prove it wrong? I am not making the claim that it is correct!


There was a group of philosophers called Therapeutae.
The Therapeutae were a Jewish sect which flourished in Alexandria and other parts of the Diaspora of Hellenistic Judaism in the final years of the Second Temple period
They were "the best" of a kind given to "perfect goodness" that "exists in many places in the inhabited world"

Now this class of persons may be met with in many places, for it was fitting that both Greece and the country of the barbarians should partake of whatever is perfectly good; and there is the greatest number of such men in Egypt, in every one of the districts, or nomes, as they are called, and especially around Alexandria; and from all quarters those who are the best of these therapeutae proceed on their pilgrimage to some most suitable place as if it were their country, which is beyond the Maereotic lake."

They lived chastely with utter simplicity; they "first of all laid down temperance as a sort of foundation for the soul to rest upon, proceed to build up other virtues on this foundation. They were dedicated to the contemplative life, and their activities for six days of the week consisted of ascetic practices, fasting, solitary prayers and the study of the scriptures in their isolated cells, each with its separate holy sanctuary, and enclosed courtyard:

In addition to the Pentateuch, the Prophets and Psalms they possessed arcane writings of their own tradition, including formulae for numerological and allegorical interpretations.

They renounced property and followed severe discipline:

They "professed an art of healing superior to that practiced in the cities."

On the seventh day the Therapeutae met in a meeting house, the men on one side of an open partition, the women modestly on the other, to hear discourses. Once in seven weeks they meet for a night-long vigil after a banquet where they served one another, for "they are not waited on by slaves, because they deem any possession of servants whatever to be contrary to nature. For she has begotten all men alike free" and sing antiphonal hymns until dawn.


Now as for their teachings, Here they are!

They see a need to take place in the minds of people because they realized that the people were engaging in all sorts of crimes and what the people would do is go and baptize themselves and confess their sins but this did not seem to help because society just kept getting worse!

So the Therapeutae seen a need to change this idea of cleaning yourself with water to something that would change the inside of you! "change your mind your behavior"

So the first and only miracle was performed by changing water into wine!
This was not ABC fine wine and spirits type of spirit but one of a different spirit. "A holly spirit" One of logic and reason!

It appears that Jesus was teaching people to use logical reasoning and you know how we can not have people being healed with logical reasoning?
Can you imagine people being able to hear and understand wisdom and logic with their ears when before they were deaf?

People would be able to see correctly so that they would not stumble over their ethical ignorance which they were blind to before! they were crippled in their understanding of reality

They were resurrected from their spiritual death and have everlasting life with logic and reason!

Can I hear an Amen?

I personally think that it was people just like today's Christians that killed Jesus because back in that time that is how many [not all] religious people behaved they were extremist absolutist
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 11:07 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Here's an explanation from Wiki on "heaven." It has nothing to do with the christian beliefs of heaven.

Quote:
The Mandate of Heaven (Chinese: 天命; pinyin: Tiānmìng) is a traditional Chinese philosophical concept concerning the legitimacy of rulers. It is similar to the European concept of the divine right of kings, in that both sought to legitimize rule from divine approval; however, unlike the divine right of kings, the Mandate of Heaven is predicated on the conduct of the ruler in question. The Mandate of Heaven postulates that heaven (Tian) would bless the authority of a just ruler, as defined by the Five Confucian Relationships, but would be displeased with a despotic ruler and would withdraw its mandate, leading to the overthrow of that ruler. The Mandate of Heaven would then transfer to those who would rule best. The mere fact of a leader having been overthrown is itself indication that he has lost the Mandate of Heaven.

The Mandate of Heaven does not require that a legitimate ruler be of noble birth, and dynasties were often founded by people of modest birth (such as the Han dynasty and Ming dynasty). The concept of the Mandate of Heaven was first used to support the rule of the kings of the Zhou Dynasty, and their overthrow of the earlier Shang dynasty. It was used throughout the history of China to support the rule of the Emperors of China, including 'foreign' dynasties such as the Qing Dynasty.

The Mandate of Heaven is a well-accepted and popular idea among the people of China, as it argues for the removal of incompetent or despotic rulers, and provided an incentive for rulers to rule well and justly. The concept is often invoked by philosophers and scholars in ancient China as a way to curtail the abuse of power by the ruler, in a system that otherwise offered no other check to this power. The Mandate of Heaven had no time limitations, instead depending on the just and able performance of the ruler. In the past, times of poverty and natural disasters were taken as signs that heaven considered the incumbent ruler unjust and thus in need of replacement.


It's about the "devine rights of kings."
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 11:35 am
@Oldmike,
i didn't misread what you said...and I agree with your analogy...but reread my post and see how there is a way that absolutes can exhist...at least in theory
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 11:49 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
.from what I have experienced in my life if there is any absolute truth to anything, ever, in my eyes it is that a God does in fact exhist..


Exactly which God exists? The God of thunder, the elephant God or is there a God that You prefer to be the only God to exist or do all Gods exist that we can imagine?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 11:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
who then would at some point NOT be unjust? and therefore all fall? therefore destroying the whole logic? and where does it finally end?? we as humans can see we can't accomplish this here on earth...how could it ever exhist like that anywhere else? in the world, or in a spiritual kingdom...therefor I see it that ANY philosophy or religion that has divisions...simply can not nor will ever exhist...
 

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