Can Any Two Things Be Identical???

@Fido,

I hope the Dutch won't be remembered in the County of Apartheid.

I apolize ... NOT! I did nothing wrong.

0 Replies

@kennethamy,

It would be helpful at this point if you could sum up your views as to whether two separate objects can be identical, or refer me to where you have done so. Is there a good reason for thinking that spatial location is not a relevant property? And do the physical (e.g. gravitational) forces acting on the two objects have any bearing on the matter?

1 Reply

@ACB,

Can U specify the Matter ?

1 Reply

@Pepijn Sweep,

Pepijn Sweep wrote:

Can U specify the Matter ?

hygrogen atoms are identical

2 Replies

@north,

north wrote:

Pepijn Sweep wrote:

Can U specify the Matter ?

hygrogen atoms are identical

A new element! Courtesy of schnapps.

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

no, how do U call it...
Li 3+,6+,9+ valenties in Dutch
Twisted Evil

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@north,

Pepijn wrote:

hygrogen atoms are identical

No. There are many isotopic variations of hydrogen (varying amounts of neutrons present in the nucleus), not to mention a whole slew of quantum properties that can vary in hydrogen atoms. But that's not the point. The original question in this thread is the wrong question. This is a matter for linguistics.

We can't really verify that any two things we identify as the same thing are going to have the same properties. In terms of the conceptual item "hydrogen atom," yes we apply it as a template for how to interpret all hydrogen atoms. This doesn't mean that all things we identify as having the same behaviour will do so.

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@RealEyes,

Hi Real!

So do you agree that 'No two things can be identical? Yes or no?

Have a brilliant day!
Mark...

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@RealEyes,

RealEyes wrote:

Pepijn wrote:
hygrogen atoms are identical

No. There are many isotopic variations of hydrogen (varying amounts of neutrons present in the nucleus), not to mention a whole slew of quantum properties that can vary in hydrogen atoms. But that's not the point. The original question in this thread is the wrong question. This is a matter for linguistics.

We can't really verify that any two things we identify as the same thing are going to have the same properties. In terms of the conceptual item "hydrogen atom," yes we apply it as a template for how to interpret all hydrogen atoms. This doesn't mean that all things we identify as having the same behaviour will do so.

I would have to defer to Heidegger and Kant, but I would say that verification is not actually a part of conceptualization, the doing of which rest certainly on identity... Without identity and things being identical we would need a different word for every object in experience, and classification would be impossible... So what if identical has come to mean equal... We don't have to fall into that trap...And if we do not fall into that trap we know how to think...

1 Reply

@Fido,

It is true we can say that hydrogen atoms (for instance) are identical to a certain precision. However, we cannot say any two things are absolutely identical. If something is absolutely identical to something else, they aren't two things, they are the same entity. This has to do with the law of identity and the fact they would carry exactly the same ontology properties.

So yes, I'll have to concede that we can loosely say two things are identical, but realistically no two things are. Two things can fit into the same general category, but each will have its own separate box it fits into in terms of identity.

1 Reply

@RealEyes,

Hi RE!

How are you?

We can loosely say most anything, but the fact of the matter is: No two things can be identical.

Let those who squabble, squabble - The truth remains. Don't you agree?

Have a great evening!
Mark...

0 Replies

Two things can be identical, zero is identical to zero...

1 Reply

@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

Two things can be identical, zero is identical to zero...

Ah, but those aren't two things. They are two references to one thing. It goes into the idea of tautology.

1 Reply

@RealEyes,

RealEyes wrote:

RexRed wrote:
Two things can be identical, zero is identical to zero...

Ah, but those aren't two things. They are two references to one thing. It goes into the idea of tautology.

But the question is about possibility, not about actuality. And why couldn't (say) two leaves on a tree have identical properties? We need not think of actual examples to show that two things could be identical. We need only think of possible examples. (But you are right about the zero example. To say that zero is zero is just to express a tautology).

4 Replies

@kennethamy,

Hi Ken!

The 'question', my 'question' IS about actuality. I don't want opinions on the imaginary, I want rational opinions based on actual factors known to be existing.

Kind regards!
Mark...

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Hi Everyone,
Can you think of any two things that are identical to one another in every way?
This is an ongoing research question, and all your answers will be gratefully received.
Thank you.
Mark...

No, there's always impurities that will make things different, maybe on the atomic/subatomic lvl.

2 Replies

@HexHammer,

Hi Hex!

Of course! Added to the fact that they must also be in two alternate spacetime locations, or else they are one thing - the same in itself and of itself.

Kind regards!

Mark...

2 Replies

@HexHammer,

HexHammer wrote:

mark noble wrote:

Hi Everyone,
Can you think of any two things that are identical to one another in every way?
This is an ongoing research question, and all your answers will be gratefully received.
Thank you.
Mark...
No, there's always impurities that will make things different, maybe on the atomic/subatomic lvl.

But that has nothing to do with it. What you point out is that it is very unlikely that two things will have exactly the same properties. But that has absolutely nothing at all to do with whether it is possible for two different things to have exactly the same properties. Don't you see those are just two different questions? You are answering an empirical question, but the issue is a philosophical-logical question. Let me put it another way. Does it make sense to say of two things that they have exactly the same properties? Never mind whether it is empirically possible or not? You are confusing an philosophical issue with an empirical issue. Let me ask again. Does it make sense to suppose that there are two leaves, and they both have exactly the same properties (and never mind whether this could or could not, in fact be the case)?

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

mark noble wrote:

Hi Everyone,
Can you think of any two things that are identical to one another in every way?
This is an ongoing research question, and all your answers will be gratefully received.
Thank you.
Mark...
No, there's always impurities that will make things different, maybe on the atomic/subatomic lvl.

But that has nothing to do with it. What you point out is that it is very unlikely that two things will have exactly the same properties. But that has absolutely nothing at all to do with whether it is possible for two different things to have exactly the same properties. Don't you see those are just two different questions? You are answering an empirical question, but the issue is a philosophical-logical question. Let me put it another way. Does it make sense to say of two things that they have exactly the same properties? Never mind whether it is empirically possible or not? You are confusing an philosophical issue with an empirical issue. Let me ask again. Does it make sense to suppose that there are two leaves, and they both have exactly the same properties (and never mind whether this could or could not, in fact be the case)?

That is not asked so specific in the initial question. What you say is the form only, not the form and behaviour.

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Of course! Added to the fact that they must also be in two alternate spacetime locations, or else they are one thing - the same in itself and of itself.

I have to disagree, your reasoning lack rationallity as they won't be 1 thing, nor won't be the same in itself and of itself, it's pure babbeling.

1 Reply

Can Any Two Things Be Identical???

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