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Socialism is BAD & the Fall of Capitalism! Study of 24 hour news network ism bashing

 
 
chad3006
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 01:53 pm
@ImMachiavellian,
We have no basis upon which to discuss anything.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 01:57 pm
@cluckk,
cluckk;174760 wrote:
Does this apply to your opinions as well? If so, then it appears we have no basis upon which to discuss anything. If not, then you must somehow be more special than the rest of us.

Oh wait! Now I recognize it! This is a simple genetic fallacy.
The point being made is that the propaganda you are exposed to and elaborate on has nothing to do with reality. If I was to use Genghis Khan as an example of the perfect free market economy, you might just object. I think it unfair to compare a modern democratic socialist government with soviet Russia. We have moved on, our citizens have different needs and are educated enough to realise the benefits of both systems.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 02:32 pm
@xris,
xris;174735 wrote:
Then your ideas of socialism is outdated..what you see is communism and thats the American desire. You dont want to see it for what it is, your self imposed blinkered attitude is evident . Who here has ever supported the excesses and stupidity of the communist state. Do you honestly see the modern democratic social governments in the same context as the autocratic states you mention? When we are looking at failures, should we look at the historic disasters capitalism has brought about and the famines it has created? shall we?


Funny. Outdated? It is a fact that social programs will strangle a government. The only reason you see social governments working is because the US currently supports them with high levels of imported goods from other countries. The US's economy is driven off of high amounts of consumer buying of foreign manufactured goods. These goods are becoming lower and lower quality to the point where many Americans are fed up with how cheap and low quality they are paying for things. This is a result of relying on social systems which will happen.

Just like public education, it is low quality. Many would opt for private education but can't afford it.

Just like the coming health care system. It will fail because it will not be able to sustain itself just like all the other social systems that the US has introduced, social security and medicare. (both of which are bankrupt)

Social programs will not sustain themselves if there are no local jobs which forces them into more social programs and that requires more tax revenue but since there are fewer working it is less tax income for the state, which in turn they try to raise taxes to make up the difference. More taxation places even a higher burden on local businesses and further job losses. It is a perpetual cycle until the system breaks.

I guarantee it will happen if we continue creating socialist system in the states but not only will the US fall apart but it will bring down other countries that rely heavily on manufacturing the crappy products that Americans won't be able to buy.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 02:52 pm
@Krumple,
So the capitalist system that has moved its productive economy abroad and cares little for the consequences, is not responsible? I love it ,capitalism causes untold suffering and the pathetic little that the US puts into its social programme is to blame..fantastic bit of re writing modern history.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 03:04 pm
@xris,
xris;174812 wrote:
So the capitalist system that has moved its productive economy abroad and cares little for the consequences, is not responsible? I love it ,capitalism causes untold suffering and the pathetic little that the US puts into its social programme is to blame..fantastic bit of re writing modern history.


Once again your lack of education gets in the way of understanding a simple concept.

It is not the fault of capitalism that businesses in the US have moved abroad. It is heavy restrictions and high levels of taxation which is a government induced problem that forces companies to seek other ways to solve their budget problems. So they look to foreign countries because there, they are not restricted by insurances, employee benefits, regulations, high taxation so they can produce the product with less overhead.

The US governmental policy forced corporations to leave. It was not the free market capitalism that did it. I guarantee if you reduce the high levels of taxation and imposted regulation businesses would return. But I highly doubt it will happen because governments get worse over time not improve.

There is a second level to this problem as well. But to prevent derailing the argument I won't go into it, but I have a feeling your response is going to go directly into it. But I'll leave it at that for now.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 03:19 pm
@xris,
This is another point of view on this subject, Please do not comment on it without watching all 6 parts. Thank you, Reasoning Self Logic YouTube - Capitalism and Other Kids' Stuff - Part 1 of 6
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2010 02:31 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;174817 wrote:
Once again your lack of education gets in the way of understanding a simple concept.

It is not the fault of capitalism that businesses in the US have moved abroad. It is heavy restrictions and high levels of taxation which is a government induced problem that forces companies to seek other ways to solve their budget problems. So they look to foreign countries because there, they are not restricted by insurances, employee benefits, regulations, high taxation so they can produce the product with less overhead.

The US governmental policy forced corporations to leave. It was not the free market capitalism that did it. I guarantee if you reduce the high levels of taxation and imposted regulation businesses would return. But I highly doubt it will happen because governments get worse over time not improve.

There is a second level to this problem as well. But to prevent derailing the argument I won't go into it, but I have a feeling your response is going to go directly into it. But I'll leave it at that for now.
Education, my education is sufficient to tell me you are talking a load of crap. One after another of profitable companies have moved their manufacturing base abroad for nothing more than few extra bucks, it can make them. Look at all the sports equipment clothing industries sweat shops in the east. In my country one after another of profitable companies have moved abroad for the bit extra profit. Dyson the vacuum cleaners , obtained UK grants to manufacture them but as soon as it became a billion pound company, it moved abroad. I can name hundreds of such companies. Cadbury's making chocolate in Bournville for a hundred years, then its new American owners move the factory abroad. They all still need our cash to buy their products but increasingly we have not got that cash. Capitalism has not the ability to see the long term effects of its insatiable greed, growth ,growth and more growth is their motivation. Its your lack of honesty and all the other capitalist lackeys, that refuse to accept this decline is a capitalist inspired disaster.

---------- Post added 06-09-2010 at 04:57 AM ----------

reasoning logic;174822 wrote:
This is another point of view on this subject, Please do not comment on it without watching all 6 parts. Thank you, Reasoning Self Logic YouTube - Capitalism and Other Kids' Stuff - Part 1 of 6

I managed it, a bit boring in its execution. I can understand the problems of capitalism and human nature that gave it birth. BUT I cant understand how he intended to rectify this situation. Humanity has to change, it has to realise that we are sitting in the one life boat and this continuous accumulation of wealth, for the few, will sink the damned boat. We need by consensus to agree that our natural instincts to capitalise on our ability, can be self destructive. Look at all parasites, they eventually kill each other off, for less and less remaining of the host, till they all die. We all need to recognise our ability and construct a world that benefits us all. This self interest, will eventually destroy us. Capitalism as we know it, has to adapt and take a worldview, not this self interested obsession. We must accept our failings and be brave enough to change.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2010 03:07 am
As an interest, I could not find this thread so I have merely posted here to see if it appears...
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2010 03:22 am



toward the top of your screen you will see...

Socialism is BAD & the Fall of Capitalism! Study of 24 hour news network ism bashing
Forums: Philosophy, Philosophy Of Politics


...click on Tag this topic
choose a tag that is meaningful to you in realation to this thread. For the time being i suggest philoforum.
Once you have tagged a thread select <New posts>. catagories will appear at the right of your screen. select (click) the catagory you wish to look at.
There actually a couple of ways to do find your posts and threads. but i find this the most convenient for me.
0 Replies
 
A Lyn Fei
 
  2  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2010 06:38 am
My definition of socialism is a societal system, not a governmental system, in which both the opportunity of success is guaranteed and the outcome of success is guaranteed. In our semi-socialist nation, opportunity is guaranteed, not outcome. And yes, we here in American enjoy the benefits of a socialist society. We have public schools, public safety systems, public transportation, public health care (medicaid), and financial aid (that's public, too).
If we were speaking of communism, that would be the system of government that Glenn Beck so wrongfully refers to as socialism, while also wrongfully defining it. Communism is an ideal system. It allows the maximum individual freedom with the maximum protection. Unfortunately, I have to admit that this system one hundred percent unattainable. Communism will always become a dictatorship simply because people like to follow, and those who rise up have always been corrupt (Stalin and Hitler come to mind).
To be clear, I am not a fan of Glenn Beck, nor am I a fan of the capitalism we see in America. I am, however, a fan of a joined system, where socialism exists in important areas: health care, education, and safety; and capitalism exists where it should: in business. The actual problem, as I see it, is that we have confused education, safety, and health care for business. That is causing a major problem and is tearing this country full of ideologues down the middle. Education is where I have particular qualms. I was lucky enough to attend private school. Yes, it was much better than public school. My school wasted money as though it were an institution not trying to make sure it could repaint the walls every semester, but trying to make sure its students received the utmost attention and intellectual stimulation. The money didn't go to the faculty (ave. salary $25,000 per year); it went to school trips, concerts, and classroom supplies. This is how education needs to be. Schools boasting a high amount of revenue are not schools at all- they are businesses, buying and selling education to the highest bidder. Capitalism caused school prices to rise and "socialism" caused the government to offer up financial aid. And in turn, capitalism took advantage of socialism and now students like me are looking at $50,000 a year tuition bills. Now, because our country is broke, financial aid will cover less than 1/10th of that cost.

I may have digressed, but I hope you see my point.
0 Replies
 
 

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