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Any philosophers that think time is completely subjective?

 
 
Razzleg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 06:06 pm
@ufotofu,
ufotofu;136280 wrote:
I'm currently writing a paper on how time is subjective. So far I only have Augustine as an example, who, from what I understand, does not believe time is completely subjective or objective. Can anyone lead me in the right direction?


You might want to look at Jorge Luis Borges' "A Refutation of Time". Although, you should also take it with a grain of salt, he didn't accept his own conclusions.

It might also be useful to study relativity theory, although it's probably not exactly what you are looking for either.

nota bene: Hegel did not think that time was subjective. He thought that subjective judgments were highly suspect, to say the least.

Sorry, just looked at the original post date, this is probably pretty pointless now. bah...
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:51 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;138017 wrote:
By strange I meant that it excites wonder and awe. That's another definition for the word strange that wasn't included in the quote above.

Strange
2 a : not before known, heard, or seen : unfamiliar b : exciting wonder or awe :

Strange - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


Hue-man, it's almost a waste of time to answer him. He's a parasite on the sincere conversations of others. Also a snotty little coward..the type to leave anonymous insults.

---------- Post added 04-10-2010 at 02:53 PM ----------

HexHammer;138534 wrote:
Time isn't some substance which you can throw around, it is like speed just a messurement.



It does exist as a measurement in physics. But also in other ways. Heidegger and who knows how many others looked at time from another angle. We are mortal beings. We know that we must one day die. So this is a different way to experience time.
LordScroop
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 04:31 pm
@ufotofu,
*-Time is subjective to rules or our perseption of time is subject to rules. To menton abok by Paul Davies "About Time" he sates among mant things and possibilities that if there were two identical twins, one traveled away frop earth close to the speed of sound for years and then camestraight back, Twe twin on the ground has aged far more than the one traveling.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 01:34 am
@LordScroop,
LordScroop;170144 wrote:
*-Time is subjective to rules or our perseption of time is subject to rules. To menton abok by Paul Davies "About Time" he sates among mant things and possibilities that if there were two identical twins, one traveled away frop earth close to the speed of sound for years and then camestraight back, Twe twin on the ground has aged far more than the one traveling.


If time is (only) subjective, then if I believe I have an appointment with the dentist at 2pm, and if I don't feel like going, it doesn't matter. Is that what you are saying?
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 01:39 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;150326 wrote:
It does exist as a measurement in physics. But also in other ways. Heidegger and who knows how many others looked at time from another angle. We are mortal beings. We know that we must one day die. So this is a different way to experience time.
So time exist because of our deaths? ..............what drugs are you on? Maybe I can have some ..pretty please?
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 01:49 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;170278 wrote:
So time exist because of our deaths? ..............what drugs are you on? Maybe I can have some ..pretty please?


No, time would exist, in this second view, because of our memory and imagination, which offer us visions of the past and future. Desire and fear would be an important factor in this view. Man imposes his imagined future on the present...and only the present is spatially here or present.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:33 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;170462 wrote:
No, time would exist, in this second view, because of our memory and imagination, which offer us visions of the past and future. Desire and fear would be an important factor in this view. Man imposes his imagined future on the present...and only the present is spatially here or present.
Sounds very poetic, little philosophy, none scientific.
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:48 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;170474 wrote:
Sounds very poetic, little philosophy, none scientific.


Well, Hex, for me, philosophy is prior to natural science. And science is made out of exactly what I just described. Science is a body of concepts and equations that develops over time, within human history. Unless we had memory, we would have no science. And unless we had a desire for more knowledge, for example a vision of the unified theory, we would not bother with science.

The future exists in the present as the fantasy of what could/should be. The scientist wants knowledge concerning the structure of nature, right? So he acts on the present, conducts experience, in order to generate this knowledge. Human time always was and always has been prior to physics time. Physics time exists as a piece of human time. Man is a time-binding species. We build on the accomplishments on the dead. And we can do so because of language, or concept. This is why Hegel said that concept is time. But that's an oversimplification.

Man is a system of concepts who is there in the present, and this present is made of not only of concepts but also of sensation and emotion. Man is a creature who desires. What does he desire? He doesn't desire what he already has, or what is already present. That would make no sense. He desires what he imagines. The future and past exists in the spatial present as imagination/memory/concept. I think they are all the same sort of "material." How does your personal past exist for you? Where is your past? It's made of concepts, I think. You carry it with you in your "head." We say head but when we humans do brain surgery we don't see concepts. We see tissue. So "head" is just a metaphor.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:52 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;170481 wrote:
Well, Hex, for me, philosophy is prior to natural science. And science is made out of exactly what I just described. Science is a body of concepts and equations that develops over time, within human history. Unless we had memory, we would have no science. And unless we had a desire for more knowledge, for example a vision of the unified theory, we would not bother with science.

The future exists in the present as the fantasy of what could/should be. The scientist wants knowledge concerning the structure of nature, right? So he acts on the present, conducts experience, in order to generate this knowledge. Human time always was and always has been prior to physics time. Physics time exists as a piece of human time. Man is a time-binding species. We build on the accomplishments on the dead. And we can do so because of language, or concept. This is why Hegel said that concept is time. But that's an oversimplification.

Man is a system of concepts who is there in the present, and this present is made of not only of concepts but also of sensation and emotion. Man is a creature who desires. What does he desire? He doesn't desire what he already has, or what is already present. That would make no sense. He desires what he imagines. The future and past exists in the spatial present as imagination/memory/concept. I think they are all the same sort of "material." How does your personal past exist for you? Where is your past? It's made of concepts, I think. You carry it with you in your "head." We say head but when we humans do brain surgery we don't see concepts. We see tissue. So "head" is just a metaphor.


Sigh!....................

---------- Post added 05-29-2010 at 04:53 PM ----------

HexHammer;170474 wrote:
Sounds very poetic, little philosophy, none scientific.


Except that it is bad poetry. It doesn't even rhyme.
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:58 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;170484 wrote:
Sigh!....................

Where did you get this word "Sigh"? Did you inherit from a language that evolved over time? And do you really find that last post hard to understand?

Here are simple questions for you. What is memory? In what way does the past exist? In what way does the future exist?

If you can't or won't answer such questions yourself, I find your "sigh" to be a little self-serving.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 05:11 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;170487 wrote:
Where did you get this word "Sigh"? Did you inherit from a language that evolved over time? And do you really find that last post hard to understand?

Here are simple questions for you. What is memory? In what way does the past exist? In what way does the future exist?

If you can't or won't answer such questions yourself, I find your "sigh" to be a little self-serving.


"Sigh" is, is of course, an onomotopaeic term, like "tweet" or "roar". It is, probably, the closest word which resembles what it represents, since it is supposed to represent a sound. The word, "sigh" is supposed to resemble the sound made when one sighs. (If you do not know the term, "onomotopaea" then you ought to learn it.) Onomotopaeic terms are, like all terms, conventional. Cats don't really go, "meow" and in French, cats go, "moo, moo" the way cows go in English. So you may say that French cats speak French when they go, "moo, moo" just as English cats or American cats go, "meow" when they speak English.

Memory is knowledge of the past, of course. The past exists. There is no such thing as a "way of existing". I have posted about that before. The same goes for the future. The past exists, but not at present; the future exists too, but not, of course at present. However, statements about the past do exist, and statements about the future exist too. What else would you like to know?
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 05:53 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;170536 wrote:

Memory is knowledge of the past, of course. The past exists. There is no such thing as a "way of existing". I have posted about that before. The same goes for the future. The past exists, but not at present; the future exists too, but not, of course at present. However, statements about the past do exist, and statements about the future exist too. What else would you like to know?

Thanks for this exhaustive account!

So the past and the future are made of statements? Sounds like concepts to me, bro.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 06:19 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;170552 wrote:
Thanks for this exhaustive account!

So the past and the future are made of statements? Sounds like concepts to me, bro.


Where did I say that the past and future are made of statements? You really have to read what is there. Not what you believe is there.That is called, "being objective". And I am definitely not your "bro". Whatever that is.
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 06:38 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;170565 wrote:
Where did I say that the past and future are made of statements? You really have to read what is there. Not what you believe is there.That is called, "being objective". And I am definitely not your "bro". Whatever that is.


Ah, you won't be my bro? That's cold as ice. :nonooo:
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 10:18 pm
@Reconstructo,
yes

to the Universe time is irrelevent , things do what they do , based on their Nature and their interactions

time is subjective

time is a Human mathematical tool to delve deeper into things
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 03:53 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;170484 wrote:
Except that it is bad poetry. It doesn't even rhyme.
As you say youself, rhymes are rhymes ..which rhymes? ..yes?
0 Replies
 
davidm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 07:36 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;170487 wrote:
In what way does the past exist? In what way does the future exist?


All the temporal locations in past, present and future exist just the same way that all locations in space exist.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2010 10:08 pm
@Reconstructo,
I would not deny the objective existence of time in favor of time as subjective phenomenon. This is because both are subjective and objective: Process and change imply time as an undeniable force, and this is not the same as the experience of temporality. But when I say "undeniable force" I am aware of a subjective attribution my mind is making. But, as Searle, put it, I believe, everything in our experience is subjective and that is an objective fact. It's the dualism that confuses us.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2010 02:28 am
@JLNobody,
Heidegger seems to argue that "temporality" and "existence" (Existenz) are inextricably linked. But he also argues that "existence" is only applicable to humans (Dasein). Together, these to point to a denial of any vantage point attainable outside human consciousness from which the term "objective" might be meaningful, except with respect to the quality of being which H categorizes as "authentic" or otherwise, according to whether we "reflect on our existence" or not.
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 09:00 pm

hmmm, time is and is not subjective

when one analyizes time carefully ,one realizes , that time is really the measurement of movement

but what then is the essence of this movement ?

the essence of this movement is the interactions of the macroworld , galaxies ,suns , planets , moons etc , of which we observe

the essence of our perspective of time is based on the observations of seasons

when to hunt an animal , when to plant crops etc.

now though take in the whole of the Universe and the movements in the Universe as a whole , coupled with our hunt and our seasons , they happen all at the same time , the same moment

think of it , whatever happens here on Earth , happenings going on at the same moment , in the Universe

things change , forward motion , not because of time , but because of the Nature of the Universe
0 Replies
 
 

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