@Jebediah,
Jebediah;112134 wrote:Yogi, think back 500 years and ask yourself what the a teenager living then would give to have the life you have. This is a golden age compared to the past.
People's expectations keep increasing, and they aren't satisfied. But that's what has driven us to this point.
Which is why yogi is brought to this internal conflict. in this information age where we can lean anything we want anywhere there is no point in going to school which make you memorize, ehem, excuse me, 'learn' things you don't need to know and not only that but people give you severe negative criticism for this unwillingness.
---------- Post added 05-23-2010 at 05:26 PM ----------
kennethamy;112147 wrote:But the expectation of getting the benefits of achievement without achieving, or even trying to achieve, is simply outrageous. I think that no other generations has had those expectations. As Freud said, the world is not a nursery, but up to this point, people have not thought the world is a nursery. How unreasonable of parents to have any expectations of their children!
i've read some of your earlier posts and let them go, but i really have to say this now because it is getting annoying now for all of your irrelevant comments. HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT EGO.
you spoke earlier about how a A student will not have the ego to think that he can speak to a professor without proper education. and now this. Yogi is not trying to cheat his way to "victory". He IS willing to do the work, and he is, (apparently. not to doubt, but according to your original thread) but what he is questioning is the credibility of the institution (LAUSD if you live in los angeles). Je*** Ch****!
---------- Post added 05-23-2010 at 05:41 PM ----------
Jebediah;112165 wrote:Yeah, he expects to not have to work. He should realize that he has to. But it is better that we have a society where he can have that unrealistic expectation.
You expect not to have to work 10 hour days, 6 days a week, because of actions taken by the labor movement not too long ago. Perhaps the expectations of the men who led that movement were seen as outrageous. Of course, they also expected to be paid $90,000 a year to weld, which did end up being outrageous.
So the expectation to talk with a harvard prof that was mentioned is unreasonable, but other complaints may not be. I've certainly had classes with timewaster homework.
He speaks of nothing akin to "not working" he is speaking about the education system that is clearly flawed in today's world, what used to work 50 yeas ago when school was still a developing new system that worked where kills and knowledge is given to children for a brighter future which can not be obtained any other way. now the information we children can obtain far surpasses what instructors can share (not always, but possible so don't flame me on this comment i'm not being ignorant, just stating facts)
Also in this twenty first century, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO. I expect not to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week, of course! My father did, not us. We don't HAVE TO. People who follow the classical get BS = Get job from 30 years ago will work 10 hours a day 6 days a week, that is what they worked for, that was what they were 'educated' to do. no creativity, just repeatability.
Two things are happening currently.
1. Students who realize that they can do more than what schools entitle them to are emerging and more prominent these days because there are more options and more possibilities than ever before. We live in a more meritocratic society than ever before. what we do is what we get. and we see successes like this, Steve Jobs who build from nothing, or Al gore a vice president v.s. Bush. Who is success? Who is the winner? Who do we want to be. Going to school, winning, "succeeding" does not necessarily lead to happiness or success in this generation.
2. We students SEE graduates with BS, BA, PhD's without jobs. EVERYONE graduates UC's and colleges. and the question employers ask is, so what? and what graduates ask is, now what? parents have no clue what is going on in this age. What is happening is there is more graduates this year than all of the graduate there has been in the history of education. (and people living longer isn't helping the rotation of employees either).
So really.. lets get back to the issue of the thread and stop bashing on Yogi, it's not helping anyone.
---------- Post added 05-23-2010 at 05:56 PM ----------
kennethamy;112379 wrote:Chance (luck) is often (they say) the residue of design. There is also a lot of truth in the saying that genius is about 90 % effort and application. No kid adores school, but many kids go to school and beyond, and are successful. So, although there may be a little truth in what William said, I would not exaggerate the amount. You do what you have to do just because you have to do it.
Of course they are "successful" they were taught what 'success' was and constantly drowned in the concept until they become what the system needs them to be. all other bright ones are washed away into the dark with negative criticism by the society. Although there may be a little truth in what you said, I would not exaggerate the amount. You shouldn't do what you have to do just because you have to do it.
---------- Post added 05-23-2010 at 06:01 PM ----------
memester;112409 wrote:What I mean by "deny any amount of truth" is not to deny that any exists, but that truth contained in your statement does not limit the amount of truth that may be in William's statement, does not deny that there may be a lot, and therefore your "so" statement is a non-sequitur.
Have you taken the LSAT...? lol
---------- Post added 05-23-2010 at 06:09 PM ----------
Pyrrho;115425 wrote:You have no regard for the life of Harvard professors. Do you think they should be forced to waste their time with every snot-nosed brat who wants to take up their time?
Yogi DMT, there are many things in the typical formal education that are not what they should be. There are a variety of reasons for that, which I will not presently get into, beyond observing the fact that different people have different ideas of what it should be, some of whom are morons. As for not valuing money, do you value having food to eat? A roof over your head? Like it or not, the world is presently organized around money, and you must deal with the brute facts of the world. It is what it is, with all of its flaws. If you are able to change it for the better, great. But if not, you must deal with it as it is.
There has been quite a load of posts pertaining to school = money. So I will take the burden off of DMT to state he is not correlating the lack of trust in the aptitude of current educational systems to his unwillingness to work, nor the ability to get a job.
"like it or not, the world is presently organized around money, and you must deal with the brute facts of the world. "
Yes, he understands. ...and?
oh right, now magically school is not flawed.
"there are many things in the typical formal education that are not what they should be."
..ok so now i'm confused. what is your point?
You're trying to get to the point of, "yes you don't like school, well if you don't go to school, you won't have a proficient/ sustainable job, and thus won't have food, or a roof on your head." That's great, except that DMT is saying school can't promise that anymore, which is why the problem is surfacing.
Now given these premise, is there something you can say to help us...?
