2
   

I'm starting to have a real problem with going to school

 
 
memester
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 12:40 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;112396 wrote:
I did not deny any amount of truth in W's statement. I just said that we should not exaggerate the amount. Indeed, that implies I thought there was some truth in W's statement, although not a lot. Neither did I say that exaggeration was not good, although I have explained about a billion times why I thought exaggeration was the very worst thing in the entire universe.
What I mean by "deny any amount of truth" is not to deny that any exists, but that truth contained in your statement does not limit the amount of truth that may be in William's statement, does not deny that there may be a lot, and therefore your "so" statement is a non-sequitur.
Zetetic11235
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 02:13 pm
@salima,
salima;112316 wrote:
why would the harvard professor not want to speak to us the uneducated or the children? I think he would, and if not he would be missing out on something more than what we would be missing out on.


I think many professors would be interested in addressing those who have a desire to learn and pursue education in their field. For instance; Brian Greene and Stephen Hawking and Roger Penrose, all of whom are interested in bringing more public interest to physics. Although, there positions are somewhat different; they will most assuredly not meet with someone just because of their interest: they are far too busy and there are far too many people who want to meet them.

I also think many professors are less interested in such endeavors for better or worse.

salima;112316 wrote:
every age has its perspective and it keeps the old more in tune and in touch to speak to the young. in a sense it is the same with the educated and the uneducated. I have met a number of illiterate people now and they are often brilliant like a beginner's mind kind of thing. I taught a man to play chess-he was determined to catch on and did soon enough to beat me. I also taught him to read english numbers-he was illiterate in his own language, but of course knew math and numbers because it is necessary for daily life. most numbers here are written in english however-so he was at a disadvantage there, and had a strong incentive to learn. he mastered it quickly...


I think a large part of it is having the incentive to learn, but also being able to put up with the bulls**t. You absolutely have to learn to put up with bulls**t, and if secondary education taught me anything, its how to cope with bulls**t.
TickTockMan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 03:50 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235;112442 wrote:
. . . also being able to put up with the bulls**t. You absolutely have to learn to put up with bulls**t, and if secondary education taught me anything, its how to cope with bulls**t.


Amen to that.
As you get older, you may also come to realize that almost all of it is bulls**t.
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 04:23 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;112406 wrote:

You can sit back and complain about how unfair it all is, or you can be a warrior.


That, sir, is a beautiful attitude for just about any occasion.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 04:51 pm
@memester,
memester;112409 wrote:
What I mean by "deny any amount of truth" is not to deny that any exists, but that truth contained in your statement does not limit the amount of truth that may be in William's statement, does not deny that there may be a lot, and therefore your "so" statement is a non-sequitur.


Whatever....................
0 Replies
 
de budding
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 06:48 am
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;112406 wrote:
This may be true. However, I know from personal experience that taking advantage of what the educational system does have to offer can provide you with an excellent set of tools to help you win your personal wars.

I think Maynard would agree. Maynard James Keenan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can sit back and complain about how unfair it all is, or you can be a warrior. There are no guarantees how your life will turn out regardless of how you behave or what you do.

If you fail, wouldn't you rather go down fighting, rather than whimpering about how unjustly you were treated and whining about how things ought to be?


I like that very much: "You can be a warrior"

Be the warrior.

The chase for our goals is a most gratifying sport.
And the spoils of war are the most enticing sort.

So be the warrior; be a tragic hero at least.

Dan.
TickTockMan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 03:35 pm
@de budding,
de_budding;112631 wrote:


So be the warrior; be a tragic hero at least.

Dan.


There is no tragedy in losing a battle, heroic or otherwise. The only tragedy
is surrendering your weapons before you have even met your opponent.

I spent years living that way . . .
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 04:43 pm
@de budding,
de_budding;112631 wrote:
I like that very much:
So be the warrior; be a tragic hero at least.


It seems important to me that Greek tragedy developed from a religious ritual, a celebration of Dionysus I believe. It's as if tragic heroes are made from the stuff of Gods. Heroism and the sacred seem intimately connect, for is it not the sacred that motivates us to heroism?
TickTockMan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 05:14 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;112758 wrote:
It seems important to me that Greek tragedy developed from a religious ritual, a celebration of Dionysus I believe. It's as if tragic heroes are made from the stuff of Gods. Heroism and the sacred seem intimately connect, for is it not the sacred that motivates us to heroism?


Heroism is not always motivated. Often it is thrust upon one in the most unlikely and unexpected ways.

I think it would be more accurate to say that heroism reveals the transcendent, while the warrior upholds the sacred.

. . . and now we seem to be a bit off topic.
0 Replies
 
de budding
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 03:37 am
@Yogi DMT,
Let me try to bring us back on topic.

I think if you work hard and battle through your education the spoils of that war are greatest in life, even if you don't end up in your 'dream job'. Whatever you learn will help you; prove that you can work to a certain academic standard. There will always be some transferable knowledge and any work experience is going to reflect other aspects of your personality.

If Yogi can be the warrior and continue with his education, even if he thinks it's pointless, he will be richer for it.

Well, I'm off to Cyprus for two weeks so I may not be responding for a while.

Kind Regards & Best of Luck.
Dan.
0 Replies
 
Pyrrho
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 07:12 pm
@de budding,
de_budding;112188 wrote:
...

And hay, kennethamy, let them all sit with a Harvard professor and find out they have nothing to say and far too much to prove.

...


You have no regard for the life of Harvard professors. Do you think they should be forced to waste their time with every snot-nosed brat who wants to take up their time?

Yogi DMT, there are many things in the typical formal education that are not what they should be. There are a variety of reasons for that, which I will not presently get into, beyond observing the fact that different people have different ideas of what it should be, some of whom are morons. As for not valuing money, do you value having food to eat? A roof over your head? Like it or not, the world is presently organized around money, and you must deal with the brute facts of the world. It is what it is, with all of its flaws. If you are able to change it for the better, great. But if not, you must deal with it as it is.
Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 10:09 pm
@Pyrrho,
Yogi DMT, there are many things in the typical formal education that are not what they should be. There are a variety of reasons for that, which I will not presently get into, beyond observing the fact that different people have different ideas of what it should be, some of whom are morons. As for not valuing money, do you value having food to eat? A roof over your head? Like it or not, the world is presently organized around money, and you must deal with the brute facts of the world. It is what it is, with all of its flaws. If you are able to change it for the better, great. But if not, you must deal with it as it is.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately i know this is true. We are not going back to a bartering system, obviously, and no matter how fucked up the educational system is, we're too far in this mess to reconsider. We just accept. One day, despite it's impossiblity in today's world, i'd like to become completely independent, not rely on anyone else for my survival and well-being. That's the way it should be. I could give up the ******* conveniences and leisures that come with following this corrupt system to the end.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 10:12 pm
@Yogi DMT,
Yogi DMT;117530 wrote:
Yogi DMT, there are many things in the typical formal education that are not what they should be. There are a variety of reasons for that, which I will not presently get into, beyond observing the fact that different people have different ideas of what it should be, some of whom are morons. As for not valuing money, do you value having food to eat? A roof over your head? Like it or not, the world is presently organized around money, and you must deal with the brute facts of the world. It is what it is, with all of its flaws. If you are able to change it for the better, great. But if not, you must deal with it as it is.


I could give up the ******* conveniences and leisures that come with following this corrupt system to the end.[/QUOTE]

Or so you think now, when you have them.
0 Replies
 
Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 10:14 pm
@Yogi DMT,
The things you own end up owning you. Agreed it would be hard, but ultimately it's a better way to live.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 10:18 pm
@Yogi DMT,
Yogi DMT;117538 wrote:
The things you own end up owning you. Agreed it would be hard, but ultimately it's a better way to live.


Or so you think now. After all, you haven't tried it, have you? You can get awfully tired of living in poverty, and very fast, too.
0 Replies
 
Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 10:21 pm
@Yogi DMT,
Poverty would deprive me of material objects yes, and luxuries too. You know, not everyone has to find happiness in those things. As far as getting tired, I would think it be the other way around. Money can only bring you so much, would you need get tired of the life that a bunch of money could bring you. Money isn't everything my friend, it's a shame we're so dependent that we cannot live without it. Our values are all messed up. Success is measured by how much money we have not what truly matter such as what we accomplish and the impact that we've had on the lives of others.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 10:32 pm
@Yogi DMT,
Yogi DMT;117541 wrote:
Poverty would deprive me of material objects yes, and luxuries too. You know, not everyone has to find happiness in those things. As far as getting tired, I would think it be the other way around. Money can only bring you so much, would you need get tired of the life that a bunch of money could bring you. Money isn't everything my friend, it's a shame we're so dependent that we cannot live without it. Our values are all messed up. Success is measured by how much money we have not what truly matter such as what we accomplish and the impact that we've had on the lives of others.



Well try it. William James was all for what he called, "experiments in living". But, it is always a good idea to have an exit strategy. By the way, I don't think that Einstein's success was measured by how much money he had, nor even, I think, Bill Gates'
Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 10:37 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;117546 wrote:
Well try it. William James was all for what he called, "experiments in living". But, it is always a good idea to have an exit strategy. By the way, I don't think that Einstein's success was measured by how much money he had, nor even, I think, Bill Gates'


But your normal everyday guy is judged by his car, his house, etc. I don't think anyone thinks fondly of the homeless. Success today is measured by money, unfortunately.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jan, 2010 11:14 pm
@Yogi DMT,
Yogi DMT;117551 wrote:
But your normal everyday guy is judged by his car, his house, etc. I don't think anyone thinks fondly of the homeless. Success today is measured by money, unfortunately.


Well, you keep on saying that, so I suppose you believe it. But maybe you ought to take a more diverse sample. Your example of the homeless is probably true, but it is an extreme. But I think you are in the grip of a theory, and facts no longer matter.
de budding
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 02:27 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;117569 wrote:
you are in the grip of a theory, and facts no longer matter.


I think Yogi you are in the grips of fear and once you realise how well someone like yourself will do in life you will happily retract a lot of your anger.

Dan.
0 Replies
 
 

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