Capitalism Will Bring World Peace

EN, you are so ideologically bound as to be wilfully blind. Socialism, essentially an economic and social matter, has come to be blurred with communism which is both an economic and political realm.

Anyone who defines socialism in the modern American context of state ownership of means of production needs to give their head a shake and discover that curious, 19th century socialist, Otto von Bismark. As in the Nazi battleship Bismark? You got it.

It was the Iron Chancellor who, in 1888, introduced the world to what he referred to as "practical Christianity." He implemented worker's compensation, health insurance, disability insurance, old age pensions, labour protections for women and children. He even considered unemployment insurance. All of these were unheard of until introduced by the Prussian Junker. Given the era, 1888, these were wildly progressive ideas. Although Bismark acted to forestall a socialist revolution, his solution was social welfare.

I would like to know some of what I am blind for.

When have I seen socialism in an "modern American context"? Iron Chancellor socialism is exactly how I look at socialism. It is a authoritarian, progressive movement, closely related to national socialism. All that confirms my views.
Or what exactly did our German chancellor do in your last paragraph if not the "state ownership of the means of production"?

Oh your so boring in your rhetoric Nero. Why do you make comments as if they are facts. Why should any one who feels that the working classes need certain protection, be made to look like Nazis or Stalin's henchmen?

Why are people so insulting today? What happened? I don't remember RDRD to be like that, or you.
Should we discuss my facts? What part of that last post do you conside incorrect?

Because that's what the state ownership of things leads to. When you want government to have the power to offer "protection", at some point you get Hitler. The good socialism paves the way for the evil kind, because both rely on expropriation. You can't say "I want state control, but only the good kind".

Sorry Nero but i cant stand your bigoted rhetoric replies any more.

Oh come on Xris, seriously? I'll toss myself under the bus here and say if he is a bigot then so are you. So do we really want to play this game again?

Sorry but this constant refusal to accept that not all socialism entails communist inspired plots against his beloved pie in the sky capitalist realm,gets me mad, it never moves on. Whatever the debate he refuses to involve himself in to the conclusion. He will disappears,then give him two weeks and his back spilling the same damned rhetoric. I would prefer smashing my head against wall. No one can say I have not tried to be patient but when you feel you are getting somewhere and he just disappears or ignores the argument, urgghh... Ive had enough.

What do you want him to do? Slap on the red arm band, oh wait, um I mean share your idea? You want him to accept his half of your statement? You want him to accept the part that belongs to him?

You do realize that from his perspective, you are the one who is also not budging right? From his point of view, the argument you are making about him not accepting your argument, is pretty much how he would see it, since he has to keep coming back and reminding you of it.

This is the game I am referring to. It is not about winning and someone succeeding back to their corner to admit defeat. There are truths on both sides, his and yours. Perhaps the solution is that neither governments are any good. The ultimate reality is, humans with a little bit of power, abuse it after a while. So even if you got the flower beds all nice and pretty, eventually the neighbor kid will trample them to retrieve his foot ball.

Actually, "Iron Chancellor socialism" was inherently corporatist, not socialist. It sought to preserve the oligarchy.

Capitalism has no innate interest in world peace or any other distraction from the prime objective of generating profit. Business is amoral and why would anyone expect otherwise?

I'm not really sure what an "American conservative" is any more. Those who claim that title seem a remarkably divided lot. There seems to be social conservatism, fiscal conservatism, teabag conservatism and Libertarian conservatism. They appear to overlap, even blur.

I assume by "economic authoritarianism" you include the Scandinavian welfare states which use hefty taxes to restrain income inequality and operate programmes for the common good.

You suggest they're moral in their intentions yet fail to achieve them. That is simply wrong. They live longer, they're healthier. They have the lowest rates of infant mortality and very low poverty. They have low rates of crime, especially violent crime, and far lower rates of incarceration. They have much less mental illness and much higher levels of educational achievement. I grant you their intentions are moral but their levels of achievement speak for themselves. They're anything but failures. If you're looking for failure on these criteria, you need not look far.

in the end both camps trust big organisations of powerful people they don't know ......... while simultaneously distrusting a different big organisation of powerful people they don't know.

The latter makes eminent sense, the former is misplaced trust born of some form of idealism.

What is peculiar is that each side condemns the other for trusting big organisations of powerful people they don't know! Well if you don't trust the power and remoteness of scale, stick to that mistrust .... and scale down.

If the state acts in accordance with the common will of its people, is it authoritarian? Surely its power, its mandate comes from below not above. That is in no respect oppressive much less elitist.

And it's fallacious to dismiss the Scandinavian's exemplary achievements in poverty reduction, women's rights, education and crime, punishment and mental illness as the result of genetics and geography. That's a ridiculous claim although I can see how it is critical to your narrative.

They live longer, they're healthier.

They have the lowest rates of infant mortality

and very low poverty.

They have low rates of crime, especially violent crime, and far lower rates of incarceration.

They have much less mental illness

and much higher levels of educational achievement.

xris
I must be one of very few who have physically attacked a labour mp for selling his principles.