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Why Islam? Fastest Growing Religion in America

 
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 02:19 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Another huge bone of contention was the UK/US backed coup in Iran back in the 1950s that deposed a democratically elected government and installed the autocratic Shah.
Hi Izzy, I've read 'All the Shahs Men' and 'CIA, a legacy of ashes', and another that related to this. As I said earlier, I'm not unaware of the near history.

Setanta's reference to the crusades got me interested because I've always wondered why they keep raising it.

As I mentioned earlier - after 9-11 I was curious as to why the Arabs hated Americans so much. Religion alone doesn't explain it.

That helps explains much of Arab terrorism towards the west (and in particular the US). As did the US bases in Saudi Arabia, as does the US interference in Arabic policy / kingdoms, as does the obvious perspective of 'US oil grabs', as does the Israel issue.

It doesn't explain the violence across the breadth of the Islamic world, nor (again) the percentage of fanatics. It also doesn't explain why the crusades are still an issue, and why they believe the current 'conflict' with the west is religious based (it is incredibly obviously for the West, based in money). Viewing it from a religious perspective, it makes more sense (having said that, I'll qualify by saying I've only just started the book Set recommended)
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 02:25 pm
@Setanta,
I can more than take care of myself. Now am I supposed to call you a name?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 02:27 pm
@coldjoint,
Suit yourself . . . as long as you address me in your posts, i'll be more than happy to tell you what a worthless piece of **** you are . . .
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 02:28 pm
@vikorr,
They keep raising it because so many Muslims believe that the crusades never ended. Economic exploitation has been, to many of them, just an extension of the crusades.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 02:34 pm
@Setanta,
Hi Set, I realise that's the 'rationalisation'. It's one that makes no sense, unless you introduce a very strong, perhaps overwhelming religious influence into ones thinking (sorry, I added that as an edit in my previous post).

I use the term 'overwhelming' purely to say that it overwhelms the part of the brain that, impartially, would recognise that greed (economics simplified) is the be all and end all for the economic domination & exploitation.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 02:36 pm
@vikorr,
If you would like the real history of the crusades watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONhVB9kIzKI

Here is a shorter version

The Truth about Islamic Crusades and Imperialism
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/11/the_truth_about_islamic_crusad.html
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 03:02 pm
@vikorr,
It doesn't have to be religious, politics and political ideology can do the same thing. As i said earlier, politics is about perception, not reality.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 05:27 pm
@Setanta,
True, but

- the political reasoning for believing in a crusade in the face of evidence to contrary, is convoluted and hard to substantiate as the root cause (perhaps the best it can be argued is as a bit part contributor and reinforcer).

- political ideology could play a part - any ideology that allows peoples fears to be manipulated can bypass peoples more objective filters.

In the end, religion makes the most sense as a motivator (though perhaps 'major motivator' is more accurate) for belief in what is essentially nonsense (a western/christian crusade against Islam that is), ignoring the evidence pointing to the contrary. Imperialisation has occurred to varying degrees - just not for religious reasons.

coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2013 07:14 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
vikorr
In the end, religion makes the most sense as a motivator (though perhaps 'major motivator' is more accurate) for belief in what is essentially nonsense (a western/christian crusade against Islam that is), ignoring the evidence pointing to the contrary. Imperialisation has occurred to varying degrees - just not for religious reasons.


After 500 years of aggression, with two thirds of the Christian world conquered by Islam, you say we launched a crusade?

And the religious literature focuses more on treating non-Muslims more than anything else. 61 % of the Koran deals with the "kafir."

And it is religious obligation to fight for Islam and advance it anyway possible. Their techniques are seen daily.

It is an a political concept first, religion is an after thought. And Muhammed garnered 150 followers in 10 years. After gaining political control and a military he gained over a 100,000 in a very short time.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 03:21 am
@vikorr,
If you want to argue for argument's sake, help yourself. I've said my piece.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 03:09 pm
@coldjoint,
Is that what my discussion with Set was about - who launched what first?
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 03:36 pm
@vikorr,
Can you make yourself clear? Are you talking about who started the crusades or who finished them?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 03:38 pm
@coldjoint,
I was talking with Set about why they believe the crusades are ongoing.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 03:50 pm
@vikorr,
They are ongoing. The eternal commands from the Koran should tell you that with a myriad of current jihad and blatant refusal to follow the laws of host countries.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 05:40 pm
@coldjoint,
My discussion with Set was regarding why many in the Islamic world believe the west is still engaged in a Christian crusade against the Islamic world.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 05:53 pm
@vikorr,
I am taking it you want me to answer. Does it look like it? We are in Muslim lands for containment purposes. And failing miserably at it. If you consider this a crusade you got it.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2013 08:06 pm
@coldjoint,
All I've been doing is correcting you on what set & I were discussing.

You appear to have a obsessive filter - and quite frankly, your repeated attempts to reinterpret that discussion are somewhat annoying.

If you want to discuss something of interest to you, then that's a different story.
0 Replies
 
 

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