1
   

Women do not love the truth

 
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 03:01 pm
@the wise one phil,
What do you mean women have got better things to do than body building? Lots of women exercise.
0 Replies
 
Poseidon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 03:45 pm
@the wise one phil,
Women are too busy building the bodies of the next generation!
0 Replies
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 03:45 pm
@Poseidon,
Poseidon;66914 wrote:
yes, i agree
but if we cannot trust man and woman, what on earth is left?
I don't think it comes down to trust or mistrust. Rather, it comes down to the fact that we are NOT fundamentally rational beings. As I'm sure you would agree, there are many forces within us that fight for our decisionmaking power, and reason / logic is but one. Both men and women revert and regress to impulsivity under certain circumstances, and while there may be loose themes within each gender, fundamentally one's ability to be disciplined and steadfast is MUCH more a function of personality than gender.

Poseidon;66914 wrote:
But i think its emotional immaturity, not illogical behaviour that is men's failing,
but thats possibly just a semantic point.
Probably, I mean I think emotional immaturity is but one of several causes of illogical behavior,

Poseidon;66914 wrote:
The point is, which is easier to build :
i) physical strength in women?
ii) or emotional maturity in men?
The problem is that physical strength in women and men really MUST be judged relative to others within the gender, but emotional maturity should be judged irrespective of it.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 03:52 pm
@the wise one phil,
Anyhow's i've matched a man in physical strength in a fight before after i trained i was capable. And i've seen a six foot woman kick boxer totally deck a man in the ring, awesome! It's all relative to your size, strength, skill and if you train or not.
0 Replies
 
Yogi DMT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 04:03 pm
@the wise one phil,
But you also have to realize that men are naturally physically stronger than women. And the difference isn't minuscule. There definitely are some oddities when a women may be stronger than a man but being realistic it is mostly not the case. Not to say that with a little extra training, women can match a man's physical strength. I'm not putting women down but just being realistic because this has been proven. Yes, women exceed in many other areas as opposed to men and visa versa.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 04:12 pm
@the wise one phil,
And what relevance does it have today in society anyway? Or rather what im trying to say is, what does that matter?
0 Replies
 
Poseidon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 05:05 pm
@the wise one phil,
Well, historically, society degenerates into warfare almost every single generation.
Leadership involves putting your life on the line.
Sad.
But true.

If 90% of the men die, it takes just 1 generation for the number to regenerate.
If 90% of the women die it takes much much longer.
Simple pragmatics.

But over and above that,
in 9 out of 10 cases, a man is stronger than a woman,
so woman just capitulate.

Now there are many exceptions, Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I, Catherine of Russia, etc
But there are no exceptions proportionally speaking from the point of view of society in general.

When it comes to corruption and such threats, a woman thinks first of her own life as protector of her children.

A married man thinks of his family, and he protects them first. But he may sacrafice himself, but he may not.

A (truly) celibate Theist, thinks of society first.
An atheist thinks only of himself. (he is the barbarian ya see)

This is why the Pope is not supposed to take a wife, because his love for her will make him weak from the point of view of wider society.

But that weakness plays a role. Its just not a leadership role from the point of view of society.

Sadly many corrupt people have infiltrated the Church and abused that position of power. One of the first popes used it as a brothel. Sadly.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 05:30 pm
@the wise one phil,
I dont understand what your saying, are you saying that a woman wouldnt die protecting her family because i disagree.
0 Replies
 
Poseidon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 05:52 pm
@the wise one phil,
um, I am not saying that completely, just mostly,

how many women died during ww2, and other wars from the point of view of the winners? (losers do not count)

as a proportion

i am also saying that anyone who puts their women on the frontlines is comitting suicide from society's point of view

its just pragmatics socially, and also individually
also if a small proportion of the service are women
it causes friction (stop laughing)
between the soldiers who undermine one another to win the girl

nursing wounded is different
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 06:12 pm
@the wise one phil,
There have been women spie swho have died for our country, the ones that were given the opportunity died so their very own children could play freely on their streets, many took part in the war, agreed not on the frontline but that doesnt mean that women are not prepared to die for there family. Besides women had to stay behind as you pointed out, to repopulate the country.
0 Replies
 
salima
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 07:45 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;66865 wrote:
Did I not say that men have a problem controlling their anger and pride? We men are by no means perfect, and neither is the woman. Also, men are more likely to express aggression through physical violence, while women are more likely to express aggression in more vindictive, non-violent ways. The fact that men are more likely to have low empathy makes men more likely to commit violent acts.

I'm not trying to put women down at all, and I believe the post you quoted made that clear. I'm just curious as to why women don't seem to be into professional or academic philosophy, and differences in the male and female brain may explain why; then again it could be socio-psychological; and more logical does not automatically mean more intelligent.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 PM ----------



Good point, Salima. Women have affairs just like men. The only difference is that women are not as sexually aggressive as men are, and they are not suspected of extramarital affairs like men are. The female Homo Sapien is promiscuous and that is a scientific fact; but men are more promiscous than women. Women are most likely to cheat during the time of the month that they are ovulating, and that's explains the high incidence of mistaken paternity.

Women are promiscuous, naturally | UK news | The Observer




i dont think women cheat because they want sex. men cheat for sex, women for those things that are missing in their relationship like romance, affection, chivalry, so many other emotional elements that a man wouldnt even consider as being important. sorry i didnt read the article yet...but i will

---------- Post added at 07:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 AM ----------

wah!
that's a pretty bad article, hue-man. i cant believe the guardian would print something like that. most of it is animal studies, and the few times they mention human beings there are no sources given, no nothing but hearsay. what they are using as evidence is only conjecture that can be contradicted. for instance, they report that men having millions of sperm in a single shot is purported to mean that they will be able to flood out any intruder's bullets. this they give as evidence of female promiscuity. how do they come to that conclusion? i was under the impression that the reason is the most healthy and strongest of the little buggers will be the ones that manage to fertilize the egg and produce a healthier offspring.
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 08:26 pm
@Poseidon,
Poseidon;66953 wrote:
i am also saying that anyone who puts their women on the frontlines is comitting suicide from society's point of view

its just pragmatics socially
The brutish physical strength possessed by men is irrelevant when it comes to questions of leadership -- the only social pragmatic you're arguing for are infantry, professional athletes, and manual laborers.

Incidentally, neither Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Churchill, Hirohito, nor certainly Roosevelt could have won a fistfight against most of the women who served as nurses, drivers, or radio operators in their war effort (or as pilots and infantry in the Red Army).
0 Replies
 
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2009 09:26 pm
@salima,
salima;66986 wrote:
i dont think women cheat because they want sex. men cheat for sex, women for those things that are missing in their relationship like romance, affection, chivalry, so many other emotional elements that a man wouldnt even consider as being important. sorry i didnt read the article yet...but i will
I'm sorry but that's BS. Every single women that I've known to cheat has done it because they wanted sex with another mate; they were simply horny and openly sexual. It's a myth that women only cheat for emotional reasons; that's a more romantic way of looking at it.

Studies proving female promiscuity and high incidence of mistaken paternity have been verified. The evidence is actual observation of female behavior and the high incidence of mistaken paternal identity. The sperm count is important for reproduction and male sperm competition. The more sperm, the more likely that you pass on your genes. This also explains testicle size in primates. Gorilla females aren't promiscuous and as a consequence male gorilla's have the smallest gentiles, while chimpanzee females are very promiscuous (more than female sapiens) and as a consequence, the male chimps have the largest testicles of the primates. The more quantity, the more quality. In other words, the more sperm you have, the more variation, and therefore more healthy sperms to make their way into the egg.

Reproductive benefits from female promiscuous mating in a small mammal

Female Promiscuity Raises Quality Of Sperm In Her Mates: Study

http://catb.org/~esr/writings/promiscuity.html

Men are no more promiscuous than women, survey finds - Telegraph

Young women more promiscuous than men - Man-Woman - Relationships - Lifestyle - The Times of India
salima
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 01:19 am
@hue-man,
hue-man;67004 wrote:
I'm sorry but that's BS. Every single women that I've known to cheat has done it because they wanted sex with another mate; they were simply horny and openly sexual. It's a myth that women only cheat for emotional reasons; that's a more romantic way of looking at it.

Studies proving female promiscuity and high incidence of mistaken paternity have been verified. The evidence is actual observation of female behavior and the high incidence of mistaken paternal identity. The sperm count is important for reproduction and male sperm competition. The more sperm, the more likely that you pass on your genes. This also explains testicle size in primates. Gorilla females aren't promiscuous and as a consequence male gorilla's have the smallest gentiles, while chimpanzee females are very promiscuous (more than female sapiens) and as a consequence, the male chimps have the largest testicles of the primates. The more quantity, the more quality. In other words, the more sperm you have, the more variation, and therefore more healthy sperms to make their way into the egg.

Reproductive benefits from female promiscuous mating in a small mammal

Female Promiscuity Raises Quality Of Sperm In Her Mates: Study

http://catb.org/~esr/writings/promiscuity.html

Men are no more promiscuous than women, survey finds - Telegraph

Young women more promiscuous than men - Man-Woman - Relationships - Lifestyle - The Times of India


of course it is a romantic notion-women are romantic creatures. women are ruled by emotion-men are ruled by sex drive.

these are the stereotypes, but there is a lot of truth to them especially among young people. i think when a man matures in life experience he realizes that not being able to control his urges is detrimental to him and makes him weak, so he works at it. he also realizes there is more to life and marriage than sex. as a woman matures she realizes that romance is basically unfullfilling and unrealistic and it is the practical side of partnership and companionship that needs to be sought and worked for.

whether men or women are looking for sex or love or some entirely different thing-excitement for instance-does not need to be an issue. now there are surely studies that have asked that question. they would be more likely to be valid than your word or mine based on our limited experience or studies on chimps and fish.

the finding that a high rate of promiscuity is involved in mistaken paternity suits cannot prove women are more promiscuous than men. that only means promiscuous people do not know who the father is.

if i understand you right, you are trying to say 1.) that women are promiscuous even moreso than men in their biological nature and 2.) women are promiscuous solely for the purpose of having sex with multiple partners. i disagree. i believe women and men are equally promiscuous, though society has a double standard and forgives men a lot sooner than they would a woman (suppose hillary would have been caught) and i believe both men and women have lots of reasons for pursuing multiple partners.

---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------

hue-man,
i think i realize we were miscommunicating. i made the statement that when women cheat or have extra-marital affairs they do it for love not sex. but that is not the same thing as promiscuity. promiscuity is multiple sex partners over an extended period of time. cheating happens once or twice or even three times.

so yes, i would agree that most people who are promiscuous do it for sex or for other reasons i can only guess at-political advantage, job security, out of boredom,etc...it makes little difference whether it is a man or a woman in that case.

are we on track now?
LWSleeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 02:16 am
@hue-man,
hue-man;67004 wrote:
I'm sorry but that's BS. Every single women that I've known to cheat has done it because they wanted sex with another mate; they were simply horny and openly sexual. It's a myth that women only cheat for emotional reasons; that's a more romantic way of looking at it.


Not only is relying on "every woman you've known" a biased sample (maybe you only know Jezebels), your interpretations are subject to your very obvious prejudices.

You don't sound like a man who knows much about women, and you never will if you keep up such ridiculous pigeon-holing. I know if I were a woman you'd be the last man on Earth I'd want to open my heart to.

Maybe most of the people posting here are too inexperienced to understand, but it really gets good with a partner when you start seeing her/him as a fellow human being . . . no more and no less.
Lily
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 03:16 am
@the wise one phil,
Here's my theory: women have been busy. Taking care of the household is a 24/7 job. Men on the other hand, they have been able to meet, have a beer and philosophize. But that's about to change, eventually. And I think we have to clearify something, women might not want to philosophize as much as men, but that doesn't mean that they can't philosophize. There are a lot of things women can learn from men, and there are a lot of things men can learn from women.
Justin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 08:40 am
@Lily,
the wise one;66725 wrote:
The western women boast they are the most educated in the world. ok, you we see many of western women on the internet displaying there unholy naked body on the internet, do those women know what they are doing? many western women are porsistute, if those women are wise can,t they use there brain to make money, they are using there body to make money from men. Education does not make women wise or make them know the truth, education make women agressive and proud

Education is not useful for a fool and it is not useful for a woman women only need skull.

This is both silly and hateful. I need not respond as you've insulted ALL women enough and in turn you've insulted yourself.

the wise one;66725 wrote:
I do not see any good or postive thing in a woman, the only postive thing i see in them is that they are good instrument of procreation,but it is because we die, that is why procreation is valueable, if we don,t die no more we don,t need to have sex any more and women existence we be invalied.

Good for you. I don't see anything good or positive that you've brought into this forum other than an uneducated, hateful opinion towards women and we can do without this kind of trash. The thread has turned into a good discussion and the 'women' in this thread have been very understanding and thoughtful. If you cannot open your mind enough to hold a conversation without preaching hatred toward any one race, sex, creed, or anyone then you've landed on the wrong forum.

[INDENT]the wise one - You are officially BANNED from this forum for proselytizing your hatred towards women in several threads within this forum.
[/INDENT]
salima;66772 wrote:
i know there are no female philosophers of any distinction-or race car drivers or masters the likes of the religious traditions in the east. i have asked why and no one else seemed to have noticed...no female prophets.

But surely there are. Danika Patrick, although not the brightest of women is a race car driver and Joyce Meyer is a very influential preacher against the Religious portion of being a Christian. There are women all over the world who are leaders and they do a good job. Let's not forget about Hillary Clinton either.

Either way, whether it be women or men, both turn a blind eye to truth. We choose our truths like we choose our underwear by selecting the size and shape that fits. It has nothing to do with the sex of the individual as we are all part of ONE sex of Gods divided light of thinking in sexed opposites as expressed everywhere we look and in all that we are and do.

Anyway, these discussions are are very good however there are times when we get people in here that do not want to discuss, they want to preach hatred and we're not going to allow this. One bad apple can spoil the entire bunch and this aint the He-Man Woman Haters club.

Thank you to all the women who have read these posts and have held your tongue.
0 Replies
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 09:52 am
@Lily,
Lily;67044 wrote:
Here's my theory: women have been busy. Taking care of the household is a 24/7 job.
Women haven't been only taking care of the household ... they've been working on farms, working in markets, working in stores, tending animals, all IN ADDITION TO taking care of the household.
0 Replies
 
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 10:00 am
@salima,
salima;67024 wrote:
of course it is a romantic notion-women are romantic creatures. women are ruled by emotion-men are ruled by sex drive.

these are the stereotypes, but there is a lot of truth to them especially among young people. i think when a man matures in life experience he realizes that not being able to control his urges is detrimental to him and makes him weak, so he works at it. he also realizes there is more to life and marriage than sex. as a woman matures she realizes that romance is basically unfullfilling and unrealistic and it is the practical side of partnership and companionship that needs to be sought and worked for.

whether men or women are looking for sex or love or some entirely different thing-excitement for instance-does not need to be an issue. now there are surely studies that have asked that question. they would be more likely to be valid than your word or mine based on our limited experience or studies on chimps and fish.

the finding that a high rate of promiscuity is involved in mistaken paternity suits cannot prove women are more promiscuous than men. that only means promiscuous people do not know who the father is.

if i understand you right, you are trying to say 1.) that women are promiscuous even moreso than men in their biological nature and 2.) women are promiscuous solely for the purpose of having sex with multiple partners. i disagree. i believe women and men are equally promiscuous, though society has a double standard and forgives men a lot sooner than they would a woman (suppose hillary would have been caught) and i believe both men and women have lots of reasons for pursuing multiple partners.
Women are more romantic, yes; but the notion that women somehow don't have the sexual drive absent of romance is just a romantic myth. Many young women are more promiscuous than mature women, as these studies show and I've personally experienced.

I'm not really saying that women are more promiscuous than men, but they are just as promiscuous as men. Have you ever seen a woman in a strip club . . . lol. Mistaken paternity, genital size in primates, and direct observation of female behavior proves that female humans are naturally promiscuous. Of course female promiscuity varies from person to person just like male promiscuity. Some people are more promiscuous than others, but they can always learn how to control their behavior. I agree that there is a double standard, and that this behavior is accepted from men more than it is from women, but the myth that women are not naturally promiscuous only enables this double standard.

salima;67024 wrote:
hue-man,
i think i realize we were miscommunicating. i made the statement that when women cheat or have extra-marital affairs they do it for love not sex. but that is not the same thing as promiscuity. promiscuity is multiple sex partners over an extended period of time. cheating happens once or twice or even three times.

so yes, i would agree that most people who are promiscuous do it for sex or for other reasons i can only guess at-political advantage, job security, out of boredom,etc...it makes little difference whether it is a man or a woman in that case.

are we on track now?


Cheating and promiscuity are the same thing. You said that cheating happens once or twice or even three times; two and three are multiple numbers, and that's the definition of promiscuity. Cheating is when you're in a monogamous relationship and you have an affair with someone else; that's seeking out more than one partner, and that's promiscuity. Sure some people have affairs for emotional reasons, but many have affairs for sensual reasons.
LWSleeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 10:02 am
@Lily,
Lily;67044 wrote:
Here's my theory: women have been busy. Taking care of the household is a 24/7 job. Men on the other hand, they have been able to meet, have a beer and philosophize. But that's about to change, eventually.


The thing is, it already has changed in those societies that allow it. How much can a woman philosophize if she lives in culture where even going to school may get her blown up or acid thrown in her face?

Today (again, in societies that allow it), women are participating in every walk of life. Personally I am thrilled to see women in politics, law, science, etc. because they definitely bring much-needed qualities to society. The very best managers I've worked with (before retiring) were women; I don't want to over-generalize, but I think they are better "natural" managers than men.

Also, I think it presents a distorted picture to only point at women in traditional mother-house keeper roles, and then contrast that only with men philosophizing. What about the hordes of men whose life is barely more than watching sports, drinking beer, working on cars, lusting after big boobs, fighting, cussing, scratching, spitting . . . well, you know. For a while when the feminist movement was first getting started, some of the radical feminists in their writings pointed only to the worst traits more common in men; boy did I resent that prejudicial treatment, so I can understand how it must feel to have been subjected to it far longer and more oppressively as some groups have experienced (Blacks, women, gays, etc.).


Lily;67044 wrote:
And I think we have to clearify something, women might not want to philosophize as much as men, but that doesn't mean that they can't philosophize. There are a lot of things women can learn from men, and there are a lot of things men can learn from women.


I am married to a relatively unreflective woman, but who embodies in how she actually is and lives much of what I contemplate in philosophy. I wonder, who is more powerfully aware . . . the person who lives it, or the person who conceptualizes about it? That thought brings us to . . .


Lily;67044 wrote:
There are a lot of things women can learn from men, and there are a lot of things men can learn from women.


IMHO, this is far, far more true than than any culture has yet realized. In my marriage, I totally subordinate myself when I can tell she is exercising her natural strengths; and she does the same with me. It has created a a most loving friendship and effective partnership, and for me been a source of constant learning.

It is unfortunate that kids are not taught relationship skills from puberty onward because most people enter into love relationships blinded by hormonal drives, and then after that calms down it too often turns into a competition between the male and female perspectives (rather than a cooperative, mutual-learning arrangement). There is a great body of work that addresses what Justin mentioned . . .


Justin;67091 wrote:
It has nothing to do with the sex of the individual as we are all part of ONE sex of Gods divided light of thinking in sexed opposites as expressed everywhere we look and in all that we are and do.


A very nice way to put it. One of the great philosophies that is yet to get the kind of attention it deserves is Chinese Yin Yang theory, particularly as embodied in the I Ching expounding on the principles of complementary opposites.

One has to extrapolate from all the cultural metaphors and analogies used in the work, but the early yin yang philosophers (which included Confucius) figured out some amazing stuff about the interaction of opposites. One insight especially relevant to this discussion is that apparent opposites are really two aspects of one thing -- look at a situation from one side and it appears one way, look at from the other and it appears a different way . . .yet there is only one situation being looked at. No single book has taught me more about polarities like male-female than the I Ching.

But even deeper than learning to recognize the action of complementary opposites is realizing where oneness is. We call it love, but even if we never call it anything, or never philosophize about it, we can always feel it.
 

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