Women do not love the truth

@the wise one phil,

the wise one;66725 wrote:

It seem you are a mum,s pet,

Beg your pardon, what does this mean?

---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 AM ----------

re;thewiseone? I didnt say woman who have degrees philosphise i said they're not all concerned with relationship issues besides some men are concerned with them too. Alot of women dont practise or study philosophy but that doesnt mean they dont think. Yes some women choose to be exploited by men by getting paid pittance, (most of them), to display their naked bodies, i personally dont agree with it and i think it should be stopped to a degree, such as, i dont like walking into my local newsagents to be faced with a naked butt on the bottom shelf, (top shelf only please), but i dont have control over these things. Who do you think premotes these things, it seems to me that both sexes are to blame. Its about respect and choice, i chose to ignore these things and seek people out who have similar values to myself, (see above), and i stay away from people who exploit and abuse sex, one can only do so much but to be bitter about it is to lose.
Sex is a multi billion dollar industry, what do you expect. Where there is money there is greed, there are people with no morals and no values but to tar women and just women with the same brush is niave.

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@salima,

salima;66772 wrote:

i have been around a lot of women in my life and i rarely am able to talk to them. i find men much more interested in the subjects that i am. but i find a lot more variety in what men talk about. for instance, i can go on and on about music to a man-or about philosophy-or about carpentry-and i am not only talking, he is talking also and happy to be heard. i am being honest, i am sorry if the ladies get offended. i am not saying this makes men good and women bad.

i know there are no female philosophers of any distinction-or race car drivers or masters the likes of the religious traditions in the east. i have asked why and no one else seemed to have noticed...no female prophets.

i have admitted to women being masters at deception-they dont want to claim it as a skill, and dont want to admit that it has its place in life. deception is a tool and a dangerous one-it too should be respected, used sparingly only in extreme circumstances and never misused.

i have also mentioned that a woman's great gift is to be able to love others and put them before her own life. i am guessing that is because we bear and care for the young.

i have seen women in the business world who are much more ruthless than men but they fail always because of their emotions, which they are unable to see through. always means every one i know in my personal experience-i am sure somewhere in the world there is a top exec who is a woman and can set her emotions aside.

i have said this before to people from time to time in my life and no one seems to think it particularly earthshaking. but it was the thing that really rocked my boat and made me realize the power women have over men. a man can rape a woman-but a woman can totally erase a man's feeling of manhood, can psychologically castrate him. she can rob him of his identity. women complain that a man 'objectifies' them. the advertising goons can put out all the stupid commercials for hondas with a babe sitting half clothed on it but i do not feel it has any reflection on me or what they think of me. but a man has very little defense when a woman attacks his image of himself on a personal basis.

both men and women have hormones that work like chemicals in the brain, and if we dont see that and learn to overcome it we act like fools. it gets easier to manage the older we get...one of the boons of getting old.

i have this sad picture of the world, where the man and woman are fighting with each other because they dont understand each other, and the man goes out of the house into the world and starts a war. and the woman is at home beating the child, who will grow up just as dysfunctional.

what a pity we dont have a crying smilie....

I hear what you're saying. The average woman's most common flaw is the inability to control their emotions at the most important times; but many men have a problem with controlling their anger and pride. I think that both men and women have notable flaws that are inherent in their gender. I love the empathy, kindness, and gentleness that is characteristic of the female human being; but the woman's flaw is not being very good at balance their emotions with logic. Sometimes women can be so empathetic that they make irrational decisions to their own detriment; like defending someone who abuses them (mentally or physically).

Men are usually good at balancing their emotions and being more logical, but sometimes men can go so far with balancing their emotions that they completely suppress them, which leads to coldness of the heart. A lack of empathy is also more common in men than women.

Overall, their are things about both genders that are due for analyzing and improvement. Being aware of your flaws is the only way to overcome them.

1 Reply

@hue-man,

hue-man;66825 wrote:

the woman's flaw is not being very good at balance their emotions with logic

Honestly, this is an unsupportable stereotype that I wish would just disappear from the earth. The catalogue of illogical crimes committed by men far exceeds that of women. Men commit the vast majority of assaults and murders, and the vast majority of murders are committed against people they personally know. In other words, a man is far more likely to take a life out of some some emotional impulse or some obsession. Men are much more likely to commit suicide. Men are more likely to do self-destructive things like have extramarital affairs when they have dependant children.

Most women who are in positions of responsibility are pretty steadfast, partly because they have to deal with men who are inconsistent and often childish.

So which gender is really the more illogical? Probably the one that makes more of an effort to proclaim its own logical superiority. :sarcastic:

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@Aedes,

Aedes;66839 wrote:

Honestly, this is an unsupportable stereotype that I wish would just disappear from the earth. The catalogue of illogical crimes committed by men far exceeds that of women. Men commit the vast majority of assaults and murders, and the vast majority of murders are committed against people they personally know. In other words, a man is far more likely to take a life out of some some emotional impulse or some obsession. Men are much more likely to commit suicide. Men are more likely to do self-destructive things like have extramarital affairs when they have dependant children.

maybe there are other reasons men commit those illogical acts...
such as murders, assaults and war-that is because men are more aggressive. women get just as angry and emotional over things but react in non-violent ways.

maybe men are more likely to commit suicide because they are unable to reach out to women for emotional support when they are so stressed out and need what cannot be found among other men.

are men more likely to have extramarital affairs? then who are they having the affairs with? single women who have no children? no, i think there are an equal number of men and women having illicit affairs...

damn-was i too logical?

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@the wise one phil,

RE:salima There are simple reasons why there havent been any women prophets yet, racing drivers etc, they weren't/aren't accepted. Can you imagine some eastern religions worshiping a female phrophet, ha! It is like this throughout history in that alot of women wrote, their work was largely ignored. There have been great women who wrote great works but have been totally unacknowledged in the past simply because they were women. It's the same for racing, they are simply not accepted but that is not to say there arent women racing drivers infact they have their own competitions and for I one hope to see them race men. And just for the record i love racing cars, i could burn anyone off the road! Smile

1 Reply

@Caroline,

"Joe aka,The Woman's Philosopher". A book of Quotes to put her in the mood. I should write something like this. Girls love those Chicken soup for the soul books. Mine will be.... "for the Romantic Philosopher in her" lol.

Love is truth. Truth is a metaphor.

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@the wise one phil,

I think that women are often put off logic, by childish men, who abuse their positions of power, and force them through financial blackmail into acts of prostitution and such. Cowardly men, of course, are those that keep the childish men in place for a host of reasons such as bribery, and perhaps being married to his sister, amongst many other reasons.

I can recall in phil honours, we were 3 students, 2 guys, and 1 girl. The girl was very smart. Really brilliant in a logical way. But when the prof spoke complete nonsense (I think it was deliberate), how quickly she just agreed with him.

Afterwards, when I asked her if she really meant what she said, she clearly just changed her opinion, agreed with me, and said she did it for the marks.

This is not just a single incident, and is just a sample of countless other incidents.

Its one thing to know the truth.
Its quite another thing to have the bravery to stand up for the truth, even if the consequences appear self-defeating. This is LOVE of truth. Dedication to it.

Many women often have better insight than many men. Possibly even more than men.
The difference is that women, when they realise the truth, so seldom have the bravery to stand up for it.

In this way, the ability of women to STAY true, is a result of their self-perceived weakness (self-esteem), which is quite illusionary in todays world.

Woman's great failure is not an inability to see the truth, its the inability to actually live by the truth. And the most noble truth is bravery in protecting truth for its own sake.

1 Reply

@Poseidon,

Poseidon;66851 wrote:

Woman's great failure is not an inability to see the truth, its the inability to actually live by the truth.

We have no right to assign a "great failure" to a group that has never had enough respect and opportunity to show the world what it can do. I mean you really think that the current state of affairs in the world would be worse if women ran most governments, corporations, and armies?? Condeleeza Rice's greatest failing was being excessively influenced by the men around her. And the men around her failed just by virtue of being idiots.

And for those who rationalize men's violence and stupidity by invoking testosterone and innate aggressiveness, please realize that if we men were sufficiently logical we'd be able to overcome those hormones.

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@the wise one phil,

Quote:

And for those who rationalize men's violence and stupidity by invoking testosterone and innate aggressiveness, please realize that if we men were sufficiently logical we'd be able to overcome those hormones.

totally agree

But, what I am suggesting is that these govts are indirectly run by YOUNG(ish) women. Who was more powerful? :

Bill Clinton, or Monica Lewinsky?
JFK or Marilyn Monroe?
etc

And how many such incidents never make it to the press?
How many interns does Obama have?

Its the dynamic between old men with schoolkid emotions, and young women with schoolkid logic that is the essence of corruption.

The unfortunate thing is that older women of power only get to their position of power through this dynamic. And even if they did not, they just seldom are able to stand up for truth. You can point out that women are not able to be strong enough to get into power, but then how can you conclude that its even possible for them to maintain such power without being corrupted or killed?

Its only by the honor of certain men, that Queen Elizabeth has some effect on the world. And after what happenned to Diana, well thats a fading memory of honor.

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@Aedes,

Aedes;66839 wrote:

Honestly, this is an unsupportable stereotype that I wish would just disappear from the earth. The catalogue of illogical crimes committed by men far exceeds that of women. Men commit the vast majority of assaults and murders, and the vast majority of murders are committed against people they personally know. In other words, a man is far more likely to take a life out of some some emotional impulse or some obsession. Men are much more likely to commit suicide. Men are more likely to do self-destructive things like have extramarital affairs when they have dependant children.

Most women who are in positions of responsibility are pretty steadfast, partly because they have to deal with men who are inconsistent and often childish.

So which gender is really the more illogical? Probably the one that makes more of an effort to proclaim its own logical superiority. :sarcastic:

Did I not say that men have a problem controlling their anger and pride? We men are by no means perfect, and neither is the woman. Also, men are more likely to express aggression through physical violence, while women are more likely to express aggression in more vindictive, non-violent ways. The fact that men are more likely to have low empathy makes men more likely to commit violent acts.

I'm not trying to put women down at all, and I believe the post you quoted made that clear. I'm just curious as to why women don't seem to be into professional or academic philosophy, and differences in the male and female brain may explain why; then again it could be socio-psychological; and more logical does not automatically mean more intelligent.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 PM ----------

salima;66844 wrote:

maybe there are other reasons men commit those illogical acts...
such as murders, assaults and war-that is because men are more aggressive. women get just as angry and emotional over things but react in non-violent ways.

maybe men are more likely to commit suicide because they are unable to reach out to women for emotional support when they are so stressed out and need what cannot be found among other men.

are men more likely to have extramarital affairs? then who are they having the affairs with? single women who have no children? no, i think there are an equal number of men and women having illicit affairs...

damn-was i too logical?

Good point, Salima. Women have affairs just like men. The only difference is that women are not as sexually aggressive as men are, and they are not suspected of extramarital affairs like men are. The female Homo Sapien is promiscuous and that is a scientific fact; but men are more promiscous than women. Women are most likely to cheat during the time of the month that they are ovulating, and that's explains the high incidence of mistaken paternity.

Women are promiscuous, naturally | UK news | The Observer

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@hue-man,

Poseidon;66864 wrote:

Who was more powerful? :

Bill Clinton, or Monica Lewinsky?
JFK or Marilyn Monroe?

So you're saying that the Bay of Pigs was Marilyn Monroe's fault?

If men can't keep it in their pants, that's one thing. But to suggest that the country and the world is actually being run by these "consorts" is a yet greater indictment of these men... and of us, because we're letting our world be run by Marilyn Monroe and not a woman with education and leadership.

Poseidon;66864 wrote:

The unfortunate thing is that older women of power only get to their position of power through this dynamic.

The unfortunate thing is that this belief persists. I'm on the faculty of one of the top 7 or 8 medical schools in the USA, and the dean of our medical school is a woman who was recruited from Harvard's faculty. My former research mentor at Harvard was a woman who is one of the most accomplished researchers in her field in the world. We're soon to have another woman on the supreme court, someone who went to Princeton and Yale -- what evidence do you possibly have that she depended on some coquettish meddling to get there???

How could you spread such crap about people who are smart, who work hard, and earn their accomplishments?

hue-man;66865 wrote:

I'm just curious as to why women don't seem to be into professional or academic philosophy

My only two philosophy professors in college were women... Maybe women don't like it because 1) historical philosophers have often been quite negative towards women, and 2) modern academic philosophy is not even remotely the same as it was 100 years ago or more, and modern philosophy is rote and dull to all but the most hardened.

Quote:

Women have affairs just like men.

But women are less likely to sacrifice their children over an affair, and they're almost certainly more likely to have an affair when things are already crappy in their relationship. Men will puzzlingly sacrifice a good relationship when they already have everything they could want or need.

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@the wise one phil,

I am a woman who is generally unconcerned with personal relationships and very focused on philosophy.

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@the wise one phil,

It's hormones, and virtually nothing else.

What makes this sort of conversation so difficult to resolve is treating maleness and femaleness as far more unique than they are, combined with not giving nearly enough emphasis to what is more basic about us than gender.

Throughout my life I've eagerly participated in relationships/friendships with women and men, including enjoying a great marriage; I've also had many opportunities to observe the effects of hormones on myself and others. Let me offer a few examples, starting with dogs we used to own many years ago.

We had a 8 year old 100 lb. male Samoyed (big for his breed) for a few years when we got a tiny female Maltese. Over the next two years she grew to a whopping 8 lbs., during which our Samoyed wholly ignored her. She'd literally climb on his head trying to play with him, but he would only lay there. Then she came into heat for the first time, and the Samoyed transformed from disinterested to obsessed. We kept her indoors and him outside, so for hours at a time he'd run from the front door to the back door and back to the front door again, exuding agonizing groans the whole way. Eventually he'd collapse from exhaustion, but in a hour or so would start up again. A few days later when her "condition" was over, he returned to normal.

Another example. I met a man who shared a huge old Victorian house with several women roommates (and two other men), and whose body did not produce testosterone. It was hard to tell if he was male or female if you just looked at his face. He wasn't gay or straight, he had no interest in sex. The females in the house loved him because he never hit on them, but would listen attentively and seemed to care about what they discussed. Doctors decided he needed to take testosterone supplements, but he quit after a few months saying they made him aggressive, quick to anger, horny, and tense.

Another example. A woman body builder at my racquetball club started taking steroids. Her personality and body both changed to be male-like. Give a man a female balance of hormones, he very well may grow breasts and find himself crying and otherwise reacting emotionally far more than before he took the hormones, as these youtube posts show: YouTube - 1 Year on HRT and TDR

Finally, in my own life I have been passionately "in love." Many people experience this, and in fact we marry because of feeling it, and divorce when it disappears (or have affairs searching for the "in love" high again). Looking back, I now am convinced that being "in love" is being in the grip of mating hormones combined with attachment to my love object (along with some insecurities likely stemming from birth separation), and the extent to which I project my hoped-for womanly ideals into my mate (which may or may not actually be there - the "in love" condition is quite deluding).

This kind of love does not last, or at least the passion one experiences at first. I now find that another sort of love is far more constant and enjoyable than hormone-induced love, even though is a lot more subtle too. This love I describe is purely about the joy of feeling a sweet affection towards another; it has nothing to do with how they look, what gender they are, or what they can do you for in return. It is all about savoring the feeling itself, how enjoyable it is to experience. True, if the person you want to feel that towards is not open to it, then it is difficult to take it very far. But it is so neutral that one can have it with every living thing, even if limited more with some than others (like bugs, which I still manage to love some).

Getting back to the theme of this thread, if we are something more basic and what you see is not necessarily what you get, then people who look at the opposite gender (or, for that matter, any other "condition" of a human) as ultimately defining that person are deluded by superficialities. Just about everything different about women from a man's perspective, for example, is due to hormones and the social conditioning that's come about because of the effects of those hormones. The real human beings are exactly the same being when we strip away all the superficial effects of social/hormonal conditioning.

In all cultures, the most enlightened beings have risen above the blindness caused by mindlessly following conditioning. Life has made it here by constantly evolving, and humanity is still evolving. So why judge humanity by how the most ignorant behave when we have the examples of those who are stepping out of blind conditioning to be conscious? Golda Meir and Benazir Bhutto led countries, Gandi and Martin Luther King passively resisted . . . men and women not exactly acting according to the "norm." The superior human has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with freedom from ignorance, especially the ignorance of mindless conditioning.

While it might be useful to observe the differences in types of conditioning on humans (such as estrogen vs. testosterone), it hardly serves the purpose of escaping ignorance, at a philosophy site no less, to sit around superficially generalizing and stereotyping people on the basis of gender (or race, or religion, or non-religion, or ethnicity, etc.).

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@Aedes,

Aedes;66874 wrote:

My only two philosophy professors in college were women... Maybe women don't like it because 1) historical philosophers have often been quite negative towards women, and 2) modern academic philosophy is not even remotely the same as it was 100 years ago or more, and modern philosophy is rote and dull to all but the most hardened.

Well that makes sense, but I wouldn't consider all academic philosophers to be hardened or dull. Don't you think that that's an unnecessary generalization?

Aedes;66874 wrote:

But women are less likely to sacrifice their children over an affair, and they're almost certainly more likely to have an affair when things are already crappy in their relationship. Men will puzzlingly sacrifice a good relationship when they already have everything they could want or need.

No; many women have affairs while they have children and for the same reasons as men. It's not usually an emotional problem in the relationship. It's usually sexual appetite. I'm not just making this up; women are promiscuous by nature just like men; they just get away with it more because they're not suspected like men, and they are not as sexually aggressive as men are.

*Click on the video screen twice because the embedding is disabled for some reason.*

YouTube - Science of Sex: Flirting

YouTube - Science of Sex: Mating

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@the wise one phil,

Again, women tend to understand things as a whole in an emotional, social, and more beautiful sense while men tend to see things as their individual pieces and look for underlying reasoning which may seem to break the beauty of the mysteries of nature down to realistic and rational parts. Men seem to be naturally more analytical while women may just take things as they are and focus on more emotional matters and social matters as opposed to scientific and mathematical matters. Like i said before there is no fine line, and these qualities overlap, what i am proposing is only guidelines of the train of thought between genders. These two understanding and neither right nor wrong just different. Maybe this underlying causes are not meant to be tinkered with and not only will everything lose it's beauty but we may become our demise one day. While understanding everything as a whole and taking it for what it is, may not lead to as much advancement. Again these ideas are expanded on from the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

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@the wise one phil,

Quote:

Good point, Salima. Women have affairs just like men. The only difference is that women are not as sexually aggressive as men are, and they are not suspected of extramarital affairs like men are. The female Homo Sapien is promiscuous and that is a scientific fact; but men are more promiscous than women. Women are most likely to cheat during the time of the month that they are ovulating, and that's explains the high incidence of mistaken paternity.

You completely missed Salima's point, which was perfectly logical.
If men are more promiscuous than women, who on earth are they promiscuous with???

Aedes. Your ad hominem comment undermines your entire point.

The important thing to remember in all of this, is that all of us only have a tiny fraction of first-hand experience to draw from. So we try and make sense by inference of what is going on in the rest of world which is 99% outside of our experiences.

So to make rude comments about another's real experiences shows emotional immaturity, and a tendency to try and beligerate your point, in typical macho fashion, Aedes. But no sweat. Water off a ducks back.

And yes, I do believe that the power-mokeys who run this world are affected to a large extent by their subconscious infantile sexual urges.

Bill Clinton, JFK are the glaring examples.
Those who promote abortion as a means to birth control, are the worst culprits.
Much like the male Lion that devours the offspring of his rival.
Very base.

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@Poseidon,

Poseidon;66900 wrote:

You completely missed Salima's point, which was perfectly logical.
If men are more promiscuous than women, who on earth are they promiscuous with???

I didn't miss her point at all, and my response wasn't incompatible with her point either. Her point was stated in plain words, so it would've been pretty hard for me to miss it.

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@Poseidon,

Poseidon;66900 wrote:

Those who promote abortion as a means to birth control, are the worst culprits.
Much like the male Lion that devours the offspring of his rival.
Very base.

I don't know anyone that is pro-choice that sees abortion as a means to birth control. That is just what many pro-lifers want to be the perception of pro-choice viewpoint.

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@Poseidon,

Poseidon;66900 wrote:

If men are more promiscuous than women, who on earth are they promiscuous with?

You think this is 1:1?

Poseidon;66900 wrote:

Aedes. Your ad hominem comment undermines your entire point.

You had a fallacy of your own, namely false appeal to authority, yet I validated you enough to write a response. But in your indignation you've avoided responding to most of what I wrote. You don't have to -- I'll accept it as a concession that you agree with me.

Poseidon;66900 wrote:

And yes, I do believe that the power-mokeys who run this world are affected to a large extent by their subconscious infantile sexual urges.

All the more reason to distrust the ability of men's logic to overcome biology.

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@the wise one phil,

Quote:

All the more reason to distrust the ability of men's logic to overcome biology.

yes, i agree
but if we cannot trust man and woman, what on earth is left?
kids?
god?
computers?

But i think its emotional immaturity, not illogical behaviour that is men's failing,
but thats possibly just a semantic point.

The point is, which is easier to build :
i) physical strength in women?
ii) or emotional maturity in men?

I have to go with ii) because the psyche is more maleable than the body is,
and besides women have got something more important to do than body-building.

1 Reply

Women do not love the truth

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