Artificial brain 'ten years away'

@Caroline,

Caroline;79226 wrote:

You think I should ask scientists why cant they create life?
Yes why not any suggestions on how to go about it?

Well it could be argued that they already have

Caroline;79226 wrote:

The difference is that it's a copy of me and not actually me, i imagine it to have no soul

What is a "soul"

Caroline;79226 wrote:

that it'd be more robotic then human, (hell I dont know!), and that isn't life is it, it's just copying, it's more dead than an imitation of me

Why

1 Reply

@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;79228 wrote:

Well it could be argued that they already have
What is a "soul"
Why

They have, they could create conscioussness in this artificial brain? Because to me that is part of life, to have a soul and to be aware of myself.
What is a soul, well it's something you cant see, probably why scientists have such a hard time trying to discover what it's all about. If you cant produce a soul then you cant produce life because it's my belief that every living thing has a soul. Which is why i believe it may turn out to be more robotic then human because it doesn't have a soul which can be dangerous, it's nothing like a human.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline;79230 wrote:

They have, they could create conscioussness in this artificial brain? Because to me that is part of life, to have a soul and to be aware of myself.
What is a soul, well it's something you cant see, probably why scientists have such a hard time trying to discover what it's all about. If you cant produce a soul then you cant produce life because it's my belief that every living thing has a soul. Which is why i believe it may turn out to be more robotic then human because it doesn't have a soul which can be dangerous, it's nothing like a human.

I don't believe in souls, I've never seen evidence for such things

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@odenskrigare,

Ok you dont believe souls exist, why? You cant see air doesn't mean it doesnt exist, you cant see emotion but you feel it. You mean you cant break it down and analyse it therefore it doesn't exist?

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@Caroline,

Caroline;79234 wrote:

Ok you dont believe souls exist, why? You cant see air doesn't mean it doesnt exist

You can test for the existence of air though

Caroline;79234 wrote:

You mean you cant break it down and analyse it therefore it doesn't exist?

Possibly. I just haven't seen anything supporting the existence of a "soul" yet

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@odenskrigare,

Yes I know you can test for air but because there is an absence of a test for the soul doesn't disprove it's existence, afterall where did we get this belief in the first place? Did it grow out of mans fear of no life after death so he invented the soul to carry on after life or is it something inside of all of us that we can describe, to me the soul is the spirit that occupies the physical body, are you saying that there is no such thing? Or are you saying that it doesn't exist because we cant prove it does?

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@Caroline,

Caroline;79237 wrote:

Yes I know you can test for air but because there is an absence of a test for the soul doesn't disprove it's existence

Right ... but I see no reason to believe

I see no reason to believe there's an invisible dragon in my garage either

Caroline;79237 wrote:

afterall where did we get this belief in the first place? Did it grow out of mans fear of no life after death so he invented the soul to carry on after life

Probably

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@odenskrigare,

Yes I dont believe the dragon is in my garage either, im not going to believe there is one in my garage simply because i cant disprove it. I dont have a garage and i can say that because if you look out of my window you'll see a car park, to me that's proof enough that i havent even got a garage let alone an invisible dragon in it, I digress-the soul, well the thing is i can sense it, I, that is my spirit inhabits this body, so what would you call it?

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@odenskrigare,

how do you sense a soul

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@odenskrigare,

What I mean by sense is that there is no test to prove that soul exists but I sense it as in it is seperate from my physical body so when i say sense i mean it in the way that although there is no scientific test to prove it's existence I still no it's there, i sense it.
Emotions - you cant see them either but they exist.
How would you explain spirit? Getting back to the question, the copy of me wouldn't have my soul/spirit, it wouldn't be me so in a roundabout way life cant be created because the copies dont hold the essence of what it is to be human, to have a soul, to me they're just copies, may aswell be walking robots.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline;79246 wrote:

What I mean by sense is that there is no test to prove that soul exists but I sense it as in it is seperate from my physical body so when i say sense i mean it in the way that although there is no scientific test to prove it's existence I still no it's there, i sense it.
Emotions - you cant see them either but they exist.
How would you explain spirit?

An emergent phenomenon of billions of neurons

Your mind tends to trick you in many respects

http://www.vashtie.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/black-dots-optical-illusion.gif

If your vision is normal, you should see black dots that appear and disappear. These aren't supernatural phenomena, but happy little accidents of our vision system, which fills in missing details that sometimes aren't really there.

The same could be said of paranormal phenomena ... our rationality is a little too bounded and we tend to want to believe certain things, so we trick ourselves. These habits are difficult to break. This is where I started to learn not to befuddle myself:

Operation Clambake presents: Baloney Detection Kit

Caroline;79246 wrote:

Getting back to the question, the copy of me wouldn't have my soul/spirit, it wouldn't be me so in a roundabout way life cant be created because the copies dont hold the essence of what it is to be human, to have a soul, to me they're just copies, may aswell be walking robots.

We are walking robots, in the broadest sense

Just not made of metal

(Well, a little, but not much ... we're ~2% metal)

Abundance of the chemical elements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But yeah that might be pretty cool

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@odenskrigare,

Why is my mind filling in details that are not there?
So are you saying that this is why I believe I have a soul because it makes sense to me? How would you describe the spirit, what is it to you, you dont believe it actually exists, that its just mind body and no soul?
Yes we maybe robots already but you can see the differences im trying to highlight.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;79262 wrote:

Why is my mind filling in details that are not there?

It's necessary because details in vision etc. are often missing

A more accessible example would be listening to someone talk in a noisy crowd

You won't hear everything clearly but through years of hearing whatever language you grew up with, it becomes possible to fill in details through prediction

Top-down guessing of details is actually pretty important, but it also leads to error. The optical illusion picture is an analogy for errors in reasoning that come about when we overuse heuristics for finding out how things work

Caroline;79262 wrote:

So are you saying that this is why I believe I have a soul because it makes sense to me? How would you describe the spirit, what is it to you, you dont believe it actually exists, that its just mind body and no soul?

Yeah more or less doesn't mean you have to lead a joyless existence though

Personally if someone told me I could have an artificial brain that would make me immortal but didn't have the ability to appreciate music, I'd tell them to take it back and fix it before I would consider using it

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@odenskrigare,

Yes but that particular picture has no missing details so why am i filling them in, i can see why i would fill in the gaps in a conversation that i couldn't hear 100 percent but it is not necessary for me to do it for the picture.
What film is that from please, (your pic at the bottom)?
It is good to realise that top down guessing is good but can lead to error and it makes it more exciting that you could be wrong as you may discover something new.
It would be awsome if someone handed me an artificial brain that would make me immortal but i'd be way too scared that it was faulty or rather that i would lose something like what you mentioned about music. I would certainly accept it on my death bed though, that with a twenty year old body but then I think I wouldn't be me, so if i accepted this artificial brain I wouldn't lose me?
Thanks

---------- Post added 07-24-2009 at 09:35 AM ----------

Oh I get it, i see the black holes because it's set on a black background, I think, ..........ho hum.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline;79269 wrote:

Yes but that particular picture has no missing details so why am i filling them in, i can see why i would fill in the gaps in a conversation that i couldn't hear 100 percent but it is not necessary for me to do it for the picture.

Yes, but you do anyway because that part of vision processing is automatic

Caroline;79269 wrote:

What film is that from please, (your pic at the bottom)?

Terminator Salvation. It's a terrible movie, actually, which is to be expected from McG, who directed a lot of music videos as well as Charlie's Angels. But the T-600 scenes were pretty awesome.

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@odenskrigare,

Yeah I loved the the effects in Terminator Salvation. I thought it was from that.
It's all very well heading into cyborg city, it's great and all that but what worries me is that we would become more machine like, (cold), and less human, (warm).

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@Caroline,

Caroline;79288 wrote:

Yeah I loved the the effects in Terminator Salvation. I thought it was from that.
It's all very well heading into cyborg city, it's great and all that but what worries me is that we would become more machine like, (cold), and less human, (warm).

I don't think anyone wants to give up his or her entire emotional experience, although many will want to retool it, and justifiably so

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@odenskrigare,

Ok well if they can make me immortal without me losing my emotions are anything going wrong give it to me.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Life has not been recreated by man and no one can say where the conscious mind exists.Looking at the details of brain and how it carries our expressed self does not conclude that we could not be external to this body.We can not prove it one way or the other but self awareness or intuitive feeling can be sufficient for many of us.It is still down to the personal belief based on life's experiences and their logic.
I think its damned arrogance to assume their science has progressed to the point that they think they can so easily reproduce the human condition.Whatever they invent it wont be human in any shape or form,of that im certain.
Showing silly pictures to show how the brain can be tricked is as silly as spraying paint on jet fighters windscreen.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris;79322 wrote:

Life has not been recreated by man

Oh except that it has:

Mycoplasma genitalium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

xris;79322 wrote:

and no one can say where the conscious mind exists.Looking at the details of brain and how it carries our expressed self does not conclude that we could not be external to this body.

Neuroscience doesn't disprove the idea that a person has a soul, but it doesn't really support that idea either.

xris;79322 wrote:

We can not prove it one way or the other but self awareness or intuitive feeling can be sufficient for many of us.It is still down to the personal belief based on life's experiences and their logic.

Oh ok anything goes I got it

xris;79322 wrote:

I think its damned arrogance to assume their science has progressed to the point that they think they can so easily reproduce the human condition.Whatever they invent it wont be human in any shape or form,of that im certain.

Irony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Isn't it at least a little arrogant for you to toss aside scornfully the life's work of thousands of researchers, who have spent years studying the brain and cognition and know much more about them than you do?

Saying "OH THOSE RECKLESS BASTARDS I JUST KNOW THEY CAN'T DO IT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T HAVE ANY FACTS" isn't arrogant?

If you believe this research is a dead-end, why do you seem to be so vehemently opposed to it?

Perhaps you harbor the knowledge, deep down inside, that they are achieving something you don't want to happen, but really will?

xris;79322 wrote:

Showing silly pictures to show how the brain can be tricked is as silly as spraying paint on jet fighters windscreen.

Errr are you saying that optical illusions don't exist?

Those black dots don't appear because of spray paint, they appear because your visual system tricks you into seeing them

Also:

Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule

1 Reply

Artificial brain 'ten years away'

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