Re: The truth about Iraq
Bugger20 wrote:
First of all, they aren't shot randomly.
Second, they are understanding of the "harassment" at check points, as long as the US gets the bad guys (Ba'athists)
Have to disagree wth you here, old chap. there have been regular reports of US forces shooting innocent civilians (often children) at an astonishing regularity. the most recent was a report on The News Hour last night. AS far as check points go, several of the shootings have occured when Iraqis were confronted with random checkpoints. The recent murder of a US friedly mayor is one such example.
Quote:None of them were Iraqi women (By birth).
Have you any documentation to back this statement up? I've met Iraqi women who were very well educated.
Quote: They were educated outside of Iraq, and Saddam paid them exorbant amounts of money to create a good view of himself to the outside world.
I have met Iraqis here in the US who were undergoing education, and others who were educated in Iraq, as I mentioned above. Most of them were hostile to Hussein and walked a very fne line. None of them were getting payments from the Hussein government.
Quote: However "his" people (the real Iraqi people) had a much harder time getting jobs and security.
The Officers killed for collaborating with the invaders were killed by Ba'athists (Saddam).
Recent reports suggest that the Iraqi populace is quite firm on
not approving of collaboration with the US forces. Most of those who are fighting covertly to free their country from the US oppressors are not supportes of the Ba'ath party. I suggest you read some of the posts Gels has made.
Quote:The US has never killed someone FOR siding with them, however accidents do happen.
With astonishing frequency, it would seem.
Quote:It supported the Hussein regime and have realized that was wrong. Have you not gone back to fix a mistake? They are now.
The people are happier there.
The freedom is amazing compared to what they had before. (Having freedom compared to not having freedom at all that is)
I am stil waiting for someone to show examples of what these new "freedoms" are.
Quote:What imprisonment? The prisoners that the US has taken have been criminals (i.e. - Ba'athists, Saddam supporters)
Including the numerous Iraqis picked up for questioning, tortured, and relased days later with no charges ever filed?
Quote: Meanwhile the newly installed Iraqi police department have been capturing actual criminals and gangs. (I've seen the coolest pictures and heard from friends how amazing this one gang bust was! The americans were there for support but basically let the Iraqi Police handle it! It was awesome!)
If they can manage to avoid being killed by the US occupation forces, I'm sure they do a great job.
Quote:If you had seen (which I can give you the opportunity to) the torture that Saddam has put "his" people through, you would know just how much of a blessing the US really is.
Oh, gee, are we going to have the shredder story again?
Quote:It may not be completely accurate, but from the Iraqi's that I know it's about right. The men of families were killed in order to keep them from having children (if they were Shia
In other words, you posted a falsehood.
Quote:However, she is lucky to be alive considering that Saddam randomly picks families, and burns their children.
As compared to being killed by US forces becasue they fire into your house or into a crowd?
Quote:
What continuing attacks? Are you speaking about the terrorists and Ba'athists that are continually attacking the US while they are there to help?
Those would be the ones. And they are likely not all "Ba'athists and terrorists," but likely Iraqi partisans. They have my full favour!
Quote: Seriously, You need to start making yourself intelligent enough to at least say what attacks.
Hmmmm....Are you related to Italgato?
Quote:Well you're not even really arguing there. You're just naming another evil that should be removed.
But add 6,000,000 shia muslims to the list of victims at the hands of Saddam.
You are the one who attempted to link Hussein to 11th September. Husseins actions in his own land, though despicable, have
nothing to do with the actions of 19
Saudis.
Quote:Especially those killed, and the wounded who are receiving no support for their injuries. How about military families, that are suffering. But fear not, the rich are getting tax cuts. I guess that makes everything OK, yes?
that has nothing to do with the war. (Tax cuts that is).
America is being very un-selfish in removing an evil from the world. It doesnt' matter what the reason is, or anything like that, why can't people just appreciate that Saddam no longer has power and the Iraqi people are much safer now?
I left my question in, to demonstrate how you are attempting top change the subject, instead of answering the question.The US has violated a contract with its own military by denying and delaying care to the wounded.
Quote:Actually there are huge developments of democracy in Iraq. It's just that you apparently don't pay attention to people that know what they're talking about.
Who are these people? Care to post something from one of them? A name, perhaps? Noah Feldman, who was assigned by teh US govt. to try and work on an Iraqi constitution hasn't seemed hopeful in recent interviews. he complains of meddling from the US government. In addition, did you read rerports today of how Bremer has cancelled every local election attempted by the Iraqis?
Quote:Those "exiles" had been exiled because Saddam would have had them removed or killed due to them being Shia. (Not all of them however). The members of the GC are some of the most intelligent and respected Iraqi leaders (both men and women) that Iraq has ever had. There is nothing wrong with them. Fraud and Larseny are complete BS. These are good lawful people. Saddam said "fraud and larseny" (if anybody did, I highly doubt anyone would though) because he wanted them returned to Iraq and killed.
They have lived outside of Iraq for so long no one in Iraq seemed to know who they were. The numerous charges of fraud against Chalabi and others os a matter of public record. They were not charged for crimes in Iraq, but in Jordan, Egypt, England, the US, Italy, Brazil, etc.. (to list a few countries where the exiles are not welcome due to pending legal matters).
Quote:About the contracts going to the US:
1) Why is it, that when the US invades a country and doesn't rebuild it, they get crapped on? Now they are rebuilding it, and getting crapped on? Make up your minds. Pick a point of view, and stick with it. Don't keep changing your opinion to stay anti-US.
2) What Iraqi companies should they give the contracts to? There are next to none (that aren't Ba'athist).
Try reading some of the accounts in the world's press about those reconstruction contracts. Quite the eye opener!
Quote:Tell me, how would allowing Saddam Hussein to remain in power, promote peace and justice in the world?
How arrogant of the US and Americans in general to assume that it is our right to decide who remains in power! Without this little adventure there would be less antagonism towards Americans around the world, and perhaps efforts could have been made to stabilize Afghanista (the first in out "break everything and then try to ignore it" world tour!). In addition, it would seem the inspectors were correct, and Hussein wasn't a threat to anyone but his own people. If we are going to start reombving "oppressive regimes," whay haven't we moved on Rwanda, etc?
Quote:Think of how much mre would have been saved had Bush not pushed the country into his private war!
Exactly!
The US are being very un-selfish in this act of liberating the Iraqi people from the death grip Saddam had on them.
They are risking their own lives, they are spending their own money, and practically ruining their own economy (which has gotten stronger, good for them!) to rid the world of an evil that the rest of the world would not support them on. I support them ridding of all evil. However, it has to be done one step at a time.
How is that self-delusion thing working for you?
Quote:But instead? Iraq has been the center of terrorism for the past 35 years! So the US has finally gone in and removed the biggest part of the terrorism going on in Iraq, and has made huge success in the war against terrorism.
There is zero evidence that Iraq has been involved in international terrorism since 1991.
Quote:Well first of all, the people there are very supportive of the US intervention to remove Saddam Hussein from power.
Indeed, along the linse of "Thank you, now leave!"
Quote:Second, please educate yourself on the situation (atleast a tiny bit please) before making arguments.
Pot, Kettle, Black, etc...
Quote:I know what's happening in Iraq long before any news source. Since April I have been posting things about the Iraqi people being happy, and how great things are and other such things LONG BEFORE anything has been reported. Why? because my sources are the Iraqi people. I get daily updates from Hassan (who gets daily updates from Saba, a man who lives in Iraq and works for the IPO)
But you haven't shared them, so I am forced to wonder if these are occurring only in your imagination.
Quote:The things that are happening in Iraq are beautiful, and no one should be against them. (Unless you are a Saddam supporter, in which case you should be killed).
Yup, killing is beauty to those who love war at any cost, isn't it?
Quote:You may have been against the reasons, and admittedly the US did not find WMD, however, they found loads of Mass Destruction caused by Saddam.
Which wasn't the stated reason for going in, was it?
