What is love?

@Zetherin,

I'm starting to see love as this metaphysic in one respect, but in the other as just a rush of chemicals. Are both valid contexts?

1 Reply

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

I'm starting to see love as this metaphysic in one respect, but in the other as just a rush of chemicals. Are both valid contexts?

Both are valid, I believe.

There is something special about how we experience as humans, particularly in regards to our emotions and sensory perception. Ya see, it makes sense *how* the sensation comes about (to put simply, the rush of chemicals), but those delving into consciousness still cannot understand *why* we even have these sensations to begin with. This is considered the hard problem of consciousness:

Hard problem of consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From an evolutionary standpoint, it's not really required that we *feel* any of the things we feel to progress.

I've been studying this phenomenon for quite some time, and have recently ordered two books regarding consciousness.

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

Perhaps it is possible to sedate people, let them go in a state of anesthesia, sort of. I mean, give one person a doze with a value of 10 of a certain chemical that induces anesthesia, then give another person a value of 20, then another a value of 30, and so on up until say 300, or I dunno.

Then, see if there is a correlation between their conscious ability to qualitatively smell certain things that on a conscious level would normally have a stringent or pungent smell, very strong. I suppose this would require semi-conscious awareness which would have to be possible... I have no clue if so. And then a way to communicate between the observer and the subject. The subject communicates the strength of this smell.

And then perhaps shift the variables around a bit. See if when the level of anesthesia inducing chemical increases that if increasing the strength of a smell the subjects do not differ in reaction. Perhaps though this experiment not exact enough.

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@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

From an evolutionary standpoint, love is said to have evolved from paleocircuits within the mammalian brain, and is designed for care, feeding, and grooming of offspring.

As humans with conscious rationalization (developed frontal lobes, among other things), we can defy nature's intentions and channel love (and any emotion) as we choose.

Beyond that, I don't see anything inherently mystical/interesting about love in particular. I find it absolutely fascinating we have these emotions, but the emphasis is on the "s".

Scheeeeeeuweee. I for one am glad we cleared that up. thank yew.

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@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Love is an emotion.

What are you confused about?

And a form of relationship...

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@Fido,

Maybe love is just another obsession.

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@Fido,

Fido wrote:

And a form of relationship...

Love is not a form of relationship, literally. A form of relationship would be: Friend, Family, Spouse etc. We can love any of these people, just as we can dislike any of these people. If we are to say love is a "form of relationship", then we must include all emotions. For instance, disgust could be a "form of relationship" with someone that disgusts you.

Elmund wrote:

Maybe love is just another obsession.

It can be an obsession. Just as hate can be an obsession, channeled through a certain mind.

My fascination with Western culture is this obsession with the concept of "Love", actually. Love, in China, is actually considered more a negative emotion. I haven't done extensive research, but it appears this whole "Gotta fall in love thing!" is an epidemic over here.

2 Replies

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Love is not a form of relationship, literally. A form of relationship would be: Friend, Family, Spouse etc. We can love any of these people, just as we can dislike any of these people. If we are to say love is a "form of relationship", then we must include all emotions. For instance, disgust could be a "form of relationship" with someone that disgusts you.

It can be an obsession. Just as hate can be an obsession, channeled through a certain mind.

My fascination with Western culture is this obsession with the concept of "Love", actually. Love, in China, is actually considered more a negative emotion. I haven't done extensive research, but it appears this whole "Gotta fall in love thing!" is an epidemic over here.

Yeah. It can be somewhat negative at times. If carried too far, it can sap the life out of a person. I'm not against it though. Just don't know how.

1 Reply

@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

Yeah. It can be somewhat negative at times. If carried too far, it can sap the life out of a person. I'm not against it though. Just don't know how.

You mean you don't know how to love another without having the life sapped out of you, or?

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@Zetherin,

Quote:

Zetherin wrote:
Love is not a form of relationship, literally. A form of relationship would be: Friend, Family, Spouse etc. We can love any of these people, just as we can dislike any of these people. If we are to say love is a "form of relationship", then we must include all emotions. For instance, disgust could be a "form of relationship" with someone that disgusts you.

Everything that can be conceived of is a form, and every form is a form of relationship... There are natural forms of relationship... There are also social forms, physical forms, and moral forms...We relate through forms like language, or government, or religion... This does not mean that forms cannot be related to each other, and be compared as particular forms and compared as such... Essentially, every form is one we relate through, and if we do not relate through them any longer they die, and we forget them... Love is a form of relationship, as are all emotions... It would be nonsense to not think of it as a form since it can be classified, and even rated by comparison to an ideal, and if not possible to form a conception of it we could not talk about it at all... And we certainly relate through the form of love...It may even be that love as a form is a part of every form, because where we do not love we do not relate....

Quote:

It can be an obsession. Just as hate can be an obsession, channeled through a certain mind.

My fascination with Western culture is this obsession with the concept of "Love", actually. Love, in China, is actually considered more a negative emotion. I haven't done extensive research, but it appears this whole "Gotta fall in love thing!" is an epidemic over here.

I doubt that people are obscessed so much with the concept as with each other...It is not just love, but love stands for so much in people's minds...The right mate might be a status symbol for one, and a chance to procreate for another.... It has its formal aspects, marriage for one, and it can be informal... In a sense the chinese are right, and I am not at all certain that they have a word for love... I am certain that it is one emotion that breaks down the line between one and another, between muen and tuen... You must know if you love some one that you might give your life for them... In a practical sense nothing could be worse for the individual, and nothing better for society than to love so that you would give up your life for theirs...But it is not love that is illness, but the individual... There is no such thing in reality, but people prove love every day...

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@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

You mean you don't know how to love another without having the life sapped out of you, or?

Oh, I know how to love my kids. And others such as family members and friends. Its this romantic kind that I'm no good at. Not to get too personal but, ya fumble ,stumble, bumble around trying to figure out how to act, how not to act. Naw. I don't. To be quite honest. But, I'm trying to learn to live with it.

2 Replies

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

You mean you don't know how to love another without having the life sapped out of you, or?

It should not sap anyone... All forms of relationship should normally give more life than they take; or else why would people join them, and accept them...Yet we see that forms like our economy and government can reach a point of failure where they do exactly that, and take life more than they give life... But love is one of those things that not only gives life to humanity as a practical matter, but makes life worth living as nothing else has the power to do... As with all relationships, a sacrifice is required, and with love that is a sacrifice of self, where you deny your self, but in return get a sense of self that is larger, including the one you love and their friends and family, for example...It is this feeling, of a larger self that makes love dangerous, not because it saps life, but because in an emergancy people will sacrifice their whole self to save their love... People grow on you... If not you, then at least me...

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@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

Oh, I know how to love my kids. And others such as family members and friends. Its this romantic kind that I'm no good at. Not to get too personal but, ya fumble ,stumble, bumble around trying to figure out how to act, how not to act. Naw. I don't. To be quite honest. But, I'm trying to learn to live with it.

So what??? I am terrible with love... I love; but I hate it... It makes you feel like you have been hit before you have been touched... But if you do care for some one, eventually they will know, and you will know if they care back... And it will show in many ways... You will learn to remember to put the toilet seat down, and remember birthdays and anniversaries... You will learn to say thanks, and mean it...No body ever gets good at it... No one ever does justice to the concept, or even to their own emotions...The best you can hope for is that you can be adequet..Did I spell that right???
Bummer for my wife and kids who may think adequet is far less than desirable, perhaps not even adequet...Love isn't for the sick and old...People fall in love when they are young because love takes such health and energy... It was not made for old farts like yours truly...Which presents another problem...By the time you can really appreciate having love you are almost to old to make a good show with it...

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@Elmud,

Fido and Elmund,

I actually agree completely with both of you. Keep the journey strong!

LOVE Razz

,

Zeth

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

I love this thread

1 Reply

@Khethil,

Khethil wrote:

I love this thread

You would like it better with sugar...

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@Elmud,

Possibly, love is knowing the pure intent of another towards you, and letting them go ,knowing or believing that you could never measure up to that intent or that person, and you hope that they will find someone who can, but in the back of your mind, you really hope they don't. So, love could be a selfish thing or an unselfish thing. Depends on what you do.

1 Reply

@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

Possibly, love is knowing the pure intent of another towards you, and letting them go ,knowing or believing that you could never measure up to that intent or that person, and you hope that they will find someone who can, but in the back of your mind, you really hope they don't. So, love could be a selfish thing or an unselfish thing. Depends on what you do.

I had a real nice girlfriend for a while back in my one year in college... She had a few IQ points on me, which put her into genius land... I didn't think I could hold, command her attention, and keep her love, if she loved me at all... I told her once after love that she shouldn't worry about getting pregnant, that I would give the baby a name.. She Said I got a name that is just fine... I wasn't thinking last name, but first name...I got so lucky with the girl I got... She isn't smarter than me, but different smart, people smart, social smart, able to balance a checkbook smart... She is practical and I am theoretical... It is great because we tend to cover each others shorts...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

I had a real nice girlfriend for a while back in my one year in college... She had a few IQ points on me, which put her into genius land... I didn't think I could hold, command her attention, and keep her love, if she loved me at all... I told her once after love that she shouldn't worry about getting pregnant, that I would give the baby a name.. She Said I got a name that is just fine... I wasn't thinking last name, but first name...I got so lucky with the girl I got... She isn't smarter than me, but different smart, people smart, social smart, able to balance a checkbook smart... She is practical and I am theoretical... It is great because we tend to cover each others shorts...

You're a lucky man Fido. Well, fortunate anyway.

1 Reply

@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

You're a lucky man Fido. Well, fortunate anyway.

Yes; but I was still reaching up for the golden apple of love... No one should settle for less in love, but go for the best they can get and try to grow into equality in the relationship... I don't think it can possibly be romantic love if it is not adoration....I am uneducated, and I still feel insecure around intelligent and educated people... If I knew then- is something all old farts say... But there is no point when it comes to love to feeling insecure, because everyone is insecure.. Do you think you can hold a woman's love... Don't expect you can without constant effort... I think of that old black song cover by Rye Cooder: That man is a fool who thinks that his wife loves no body else but him...She'll stick by you all of your life, but the chances are mighty slim.... I never expected my wife to stick with me as long as she has... She could have done better... It has been good for me, and hard for her...If you love some one, commit yourself forever, but love each moment because that may be all you get...People leave; and people drop dead, **** happens; but don't wish your life away...Love the moment...When it is over it will seem as only a moment...Make it a good one...

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