1
   

A socialist USA?

 
 
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 03:39 pm
@Ola,
Ola wrote:
There is people and people.
The establishment is still around and owns the vast majority of land and money. The establishment is people.
They just went "into hiding" when it was time to pay the bill.
Socialize cost and privatize profit.
or
Socialize the risk, privatize the profits.
If only the market liberals could practise what they preach.

Let those that made the money the last 20 years now pay.
Now that's socialism.

You all are pretty happy about how socialism works in Sweden . Am I correct Ola?
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 06:10 pm
@Elmud,
Aedes wrote:
Well, it was sort of complete social meltdown and bedlam. It had communist ideals that were never realized because it arose in a state of war and was suppressed within 2 months. But it apparently was a strange sort of party time in the city too.


Sounds like a blast to me. Those French sure do know how to rise up against a government.
0 Replies
 
Ola
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 09:24 am
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
You all are pretty happy about how socialism works in Sweden . Am I correct Ola?

If socialism is taking care of the workers then I'm sure we don't have any [socialism]. USA now have a higher minimum wage than Sweden.
And what about our monarc? Doesn't that make us a monarchy? Now how does that work with a socialist Sweden?

The social-democratic-party isn't even a party to the left anymore. Social democracy has become a joke.
Just like representative democracy isn't real democracy.

I don't know, going to have to try socialism before I know if I'm happy about it or not.
Sounds good - justice.

Do you [americans] believe that socialism is the opposite of freedom?
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 05:53 pm
@Ola,
Ola wrote:
If socialism is taking care of the workers then I'm sure we don't have any [socialism]. USA now have a higher minimum wage than Sweden.
And what about our monarc? Doesn't that make us a monarchy? Now how does that work with a socialist Sweden?

The social-democratic-party isn't even a party to the left anymore. Social democracy has become a joke.
Just like representative democracy isn't real democracy.

I don't know, going to have to try socialism before I know if I'm happy about it or not.
Sounds good - justice.

Do you [americans] believe that socialism is the opposite of freedom?

I don't. But, this American doesn't believe that freedom exists in this republic either. Not in the truest sense of the word anyway.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 09:40 pm
@Elmud,
I think most Americans have become so cynical (as opposed to the healthy disposition of skeptical) that we just don't care about freedom any more.
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 09:57 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
I think most Americans have become so cynical (as opposed to the healthy disposition of skeptical) that we just don't care about freedom any more.

Well Didymos, I think you may be right. But, what is freedom? I don't really know. We have the freedom to drive a vehicle, providing we have a drivers license and insurance. If freedom insinuates rights, then I would say we do not really have freedom by definition of the word. If freedom means we have privileges with conditions, then I guess we have freedom.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 10:05 pm
@Elmud,
Political freedom or mental freedom? As for political freedom, we have a great deal of that, though we do face some serious restrictions. As you say: with conditions.

Mental freedom is all up to us. To quote Sly Stone "Don't you know that you are free?/Well at least in your mind if you want to be."
0 Replies
 
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 10:58 pm
@Ola,
Ola wrote:
If socialism is taking care of the workers then I'm sure we don't have any [socialism]. USA now have a higher minimum wage than Sweden.
And what about our monarc? Doesn't that make us a monarchy? Now how does that work with a socialist Sweden?

The social-democratic-party isn't even a party to the left anymore. Social democracy has become a joke.
Just like representative democracy isn't real democracy.

I don't know, going to have to try socialism before I know if I'm happy about it or not.
Sounds good - justice.

Do you [americans] believe that socialism is the opposite of freedom?

Sorry. A friend of mine thought that Sweden was a socialist country. I did not know it was a monarchy. Thanks.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 11:15 pm
@Elmud,
Sweden has a monarch, and also a parliamentary system, and is a constitutional monarchy much like the UK in which the monarch is the symbolic head the the country.

Economically, like most every other modern nation, Sweden has a mixed economy. Sweden also has an extensive welfare program, which is why the country is so often called a socialist nation.
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 06:02 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
I think most Americans have become so cynical (as opposed to the healthy disposition of skeptical) that we just don't care about freedom any more.


I think it is a matter of complacency rather than cynicism.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 11:07 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
Threaten your freedom and it becomes important,complacency is usually contentment.Socialism is the desire to be equal under the law and be free from exploitation.I think the real fear for americans would be removing their right to carry guns..
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 11:11 am
@Elmud,
When a company like AIG is so important to the solvency of the world economy, when they're insuring 74 million clients, then how are we really free? Too much is intertwined, too much is interdependent. You'd have to be a hunter-gatherer to be truly 'off the grid'. Learning about this crisis should show everyone how deeply intertwined the individual is with the uberstructure of treasuries and banks -- and vice-versa.

This is not a centrally-imposed lack of freedom. It's a systemic lack of freedom.
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 06:19 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
Threaten your freedom and it becomes important,complacency is usually contentment.Socialism is the desire to be equal under the law and be free from exploitation.I think the real fear for americans would be removing their right to carry guns..


Gun ownership is a fringe issue that riles a small portion of the population.

The prominence of an issue like that (see also gay marriage) is a good measure of just how complacent the general public is. The same people are still passionate about the gun ownership issue, but for some reason their voices are a lot less noticeable with this depression looming.
0 Replies
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 06:26 am
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
When a company like AIG is so important to the solvency of the world economy, when they're insuring 74 million clients, then how are we really free? Too much is intertwined, too much is interdependent. You'd have to be a hunter-gatherer to be truly 'off the grid'. Learning about this crisis should show everyone how deeply intertwined the individual is with the uberstructure of treasuries and banks -- and vice-versa.

This is not a centrally-imposed lack of freedom. It's a systemic lack of freedom.


Any somewhat modern sedentary civilization is going to have a systematic lack of freedom because of the interdependency caused by labor division.

But you are correct that there is a systematic lack of freedom because of the structure of the world financial sector. However, to say it is not centrally-imposed is not entirely true. These are decentralized private actors somewhat, but learning about the crisis should also show everyone how hand-picked and subsidized these individuals are.

If you haven't already, please read the article that I started this thread with:

http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum/lounge/general-discussion/3762-money-monopoly-creates-monopoly-money.html#post51614
0 Replies
 
Ola
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 11:49 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
Sweden has a monarch, and also a parliamentary system, and is a constitutional monarchy much like the UK in which the monarch is the symbolic head the the country.

Economically, like most every other modern nation, Sweden has a mixed economy. Sweden also has an extensive welfare program, which is why the country is so often called a socialist nation.

"...extensive welfare program, which is why the country is so often called a socialist nation."
Well not any more!
Milton Friedman is worshiped over here.
No more a mixed economy - we are a "free" market economy.
If not all the way today - then we will be real soon.
SAAB has enormous problems but the government won't lift a finger.
O'bama is helping the US auto-industry, isn't he?

I don't know...
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 01:44 pm
@Ola,
Sweden has eliminated its massive welfare system?

And I'm pretty sure that the economy over there is still a mixed economy. If not, then it's the only nation in the world without a mixed economy.

Oh, and yea, the US automotive industry is getting help from the government.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 02:04 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
Sweden has eliminated its massive welfare system?

And I'm pretty sure that the economy over there is still a mixed economy. If not, then it's the only nation in the world without a mixed economy.

Oh, and yea, the US automotive industry is getting help from the government.
The trouble with Sweden is the massive immigration of muslims not the socialist ideals.They have stretched the economy so that social harmony has broken down.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 02:07 pm
@xris,
I wasn't criticizing the socialist ideals: I actually kinda like socialism.
0 Replies
 
Cyber Abyss
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 08:04 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
The trouble with Sweden is the massive immigration of muslims not the socialist ideals.They have stretched the economy so that social harmony has broken down.



Europe fought for years to deport all Muslims back in the 1700s but now they are being swarmed by them and paying the consequences.
0 Replies
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 09:51 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
The trouble with Sweden is the massive immigration of muslims not the socialist ideals.They have stretched the economy so that social harmony has broken down.


This man has a "solution":

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2008/04/01/Hitler_080401095910432_wideweb__300x375.jpg
 

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