0
   

Unspeakable filth on the internet

 
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:21 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;83202 wrote:
From reading about them in the news. What I said was common knowledge.


"Common knowledge" you can't dig up links for
0 Replies
 
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:22 am
@Alan McDougall,
As always, kennethamy, you seem to start from the assumption that the person with whom you are corresponding knows less than you.

I am quite happy to have a debate on topic of 'morality of pornography', but I insist that it is cleared through the board admin first and that it is very strictly moderated. It is a very touchy topic that hits a lot of hot buttons. I can assure you there is ample empirical evidence for the proposition 'porn is evil' but as far as this thread goes I am out.
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:25 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;83207 wrote:
As always, kennethamy, you seem to start from the assumption that the person with whom you are corresponding knows less than you


That seems to be a pretty good assumption in this case
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:31 am
@Alan McDougall,
Please do not stray from the topic by throwing negative remarks please, (don't care who started it), thank you.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:32 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;83207 wrote:
As always, kennethamy, you seem to start from the assumption that the person with whom you are corresponding knows less than you.

I am quite happy to have a debate on topic of 'morality of pornography', but I insist that it is cleared through the board admin first and that it is very strictly moderated. It is a very touchy topic that hits a lot of hot buttons. I can assure you there is ample empirical evidence for the proposition 'porn is evil' but as far as this thread goes I am out.



All I asked was whether your opinion was an informed opinion. All you said is that you were offering an opinion, as if that settled the matter. You did not say what that opinion was based on except reading newspapers. Earlier you had said that if you were a sociologist you could show me studies about the nefarious effects of porn. And I asked, how you knew this. Have you an informed answer?

By the way, once more you miss the point. This is not about the morality of pornography. That is a very different issue. This issue is about the effects of pornography on children. May we, please, not "stray" from the issue, by strewing red herrings in our path. I suppose even Caroline agrees with that.
Jackofalltrades phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:49 am
@Alan McDougall,
I am for a topic on "morality of pornography' or the proposition 'porn is evil'.
0 Replies
 
RDanneskjld
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 07:47 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;83180 wrote:
There is a ton of empirical evidence out there on the upsurge of sexually transmitted infections amongs <25 yo. I suppose if I was a socioligist I could show you all the studies of how porn undermines trust, destroys intimacy, gives children a completely false idea of what sex is about, and so on, and so on. There are tons of tangible effects out there, lots of scripts being written for the illnesses, lots of counselling sessions taking place to overcome the effects on normal human relationships.

porn is evil.

There is also a bulk of evidence that shows a correlation between the growth of the use of Pornography and decrease's in Sexual assault per captia in both Japan & the USA.

"The effects of Pornography: An International Perspective"was an epidemiological study which found that the massive growth of the pornography industry in the United States between 1975 and 1995 was accompanied by a substantial decrease in the number of sexual assaults per capita; and reported similar results for Japan.

Also a report done after the legalisation of Pornography in Denmark in 1970 found that the legalizing of pornography in Denmark had not (as expected) resulted in an increase of sex crimes.

There are a few studies which also show a different result towards the issue but certainly there is no clear link between Pornography & these social ill's that people are so worried about. What legally consenting adults engage in, which cannot be shown to do any serious harm to Society, frankly has no grounds to be made illegal & quite frankly should be availiable to adults who want consume such media. Certainly there are issue's in preventing minors engaging & consuming Pornography, but this not grounds for taking an anti-pornography stance. The rise in STD's I believe has nothing to do with the so called rise of 'Pornography' and can be attributed to other factors.

I agree with Salam Rushdie in his belief that pornography is vital to freedom and that a free and civilized society should be judged by its willingness to accept pornography.
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 10:58 am
@Alan McDougall,
They say this depraved stuff and appalling photos and images are for adult eyes only, the problem I have after looking at the hideous things my grandson was looking at is I am not adult to look at this sort of reprobate depravity

I have never come accross such filth in all of my protracted life , I simple did not know people did this type of thing.

And believe me I was not always a good boy living a sheltered life, these things are seeds to insanity and murder, not to all people but even one child pushed over the edge is one too many
Theages
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 11:11 am
@Alan McDougall,
jeeprs;83180 wrote:
I am not writing this from some high and mighty moral position here. I am also in the audience for this, and I am one of the people that needs to understand it. If you catch my drift.

Okay, so since you have a problem with porn, everybody else must have a problem with porn? Stop projecting your own shortcomings onto others.

Alan McDougall;83267 wrote:
these things are seeds to insanity and murder

I asked you once before: do you have proof for this assertion? If you ignore me again, I'm going to assume that you have none. (It's interesting that the throwing out of wild and outrageous claims by insecure, defensive, and projecting puritan moralists without a semblance of proof seems to be such a prominent theme in this thread.)
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 11:17 am
@Theages,
Theages;83273 wrote:
Okay, so since you have a problem with porn, everybody else must have a problem with porn? Stop projecting your own shortcomings onto others.


I asked you once before: do you have proof for this assertion? If you ignore me again, I'm going to assume that you have none. (It's interesting that the throwing out of wild and outrageous claims by insecure, defensive, and projecting puritan moralists without a semblance of proof seems to be such a prominent theme in this thread.)


Yes, as the saying goes, "Often in error, but never in doubt".
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 12:17 pm
@Theages,
Theages;82796 wrote:
Do you have any proof for this assertion?


How can I prove it to you? it is well documented for example that Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahma had a fascination with killing and dissecting animals as children.

The images I saw on the web were the dismembered bodies of real people and such despicable pornography that almost made me physically ill You are going to say then why did I look at it, I did it to see what my grandson was doing and downloading on my computer.

After the first few images and photos I promptly deleted the lot and had a long talk to my grandson

Joachim Kroll: German serial killer preyed upon girls and women the Crime Library - Crime Library on truTV.com
In Sex-Related Homicide and Death Investigation, Vernon Geberth, a former NYPD officer and currently one of the world's top experts in the protocol for homicide investigation, discusses the nature of sexual deviance. He states that sexual behaviors are classified according to socio-cultural norms as either acceptable or unacceptable, which makes the label, "deviant," essentially a subjective judgment.

"The seeds of sexual perversion are planted early in the psyche of a sex offender," Geberth states. "However, the sexual perversions do not manifest until the offender reaches puberty. The seed is nurtured through fantasy, masturbatory activities that reinforce and nourish the particular paraphilic imagery, as well as situational 'acting out' of these perversions with a willing partner." By the time the offender actually commits a crime, its thematic orientation may have been rehearsed mentally, and sometimes physically, many times.

"The sexual event is the culmination of an offender's psychosocial and psychosexual conditioning and development."

During his confession, Kroll admitted that on a whim, he had tasted the flesh from one of his early victims, and had found that he liked it. Thereafter, he'd stalked women or girls that he thought would yield tender meat, and sometimes indulged his lust, leaving their bodies sans pieces of flesh. He accepted that he had some kind of sickness and he asked for a cure so that he could return home. Naively, he believed that now that he was caught, it would be a simple matter of changing him. He expected nothing less, and nothing more.
Theages
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 12:32 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;83279 wrote:
How can I prove it to you? it is well documented for example that Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahma had a fascination with killing and dissecting animals as children.

The images I saw on the web were the dismembered bodies of real people and such despicable pornography that almost made me physically ill You are going to say then why did I look at it, I did it to see what my grandson was doing and downloading on my computer.

First, nothing you posted has anything to do with the internet, so strictly speaking it's all irrelevant.

Second, you have the causation relationship backwards. If we grant you that all serial killers had a fascination with gruesome things (I don't know if this is true or not), then we have this statement:

*If someone is a serial killer, then that person had a fascination with gruesome things.

This is a reasonable claim. However, it is not at all the claim you made. Your claim was this:

*If someone has a fascination with gruesome things, then that person will become a serial killer.

In other words, your claim was of the form 'A -> B', whereas what you're proving is of the form 'B -> A'. You are guilty of affiming the consequent, a fairly basic logical fallacy. You may wish to consult the Logic Forum for an explanation of what I mean. In fact, I strongly suggest that you do, since your poor grasp of logic is causing you to say things that are completely insane and borderline libelous.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 12:59 pm
@Theages,
Theages;83282 wrote:
First, nothing you posted has anything to do with the internet, so strictly speaking it's all irrelevant.

Second, you have the causation relationship backwards. If we grant you that all serial killers had a fascination with gruesome things (I don't know if this is true or not), then we have this statement:

*If someone is a serial killer, then that person had a fascination with gruesome things.

This is a reasonable claim. However, it is not at all the claim you made. Your claim was this:

*If someone has a fascination with gruesome things, then that person will become a serial killer.

In other words, your claim was of the form 'A -> B', whereas what you're proving is of the form 'B -> A'. You are guilty of affiming the consequent, a fairly basic logical fallacy. You may wish to consult the Logic Forum for an explanation of what I mean. In fact, I strongly suggest that you do, since your poor grasp of logic is causing you to say things that are completely insane and borderline libelous.


I am guilty of nothing and to suggest that I am insane and borderline libellous is the most outrageous statement of the illogical I have ever had the displeasure to read

My logic is sound, the bold comment above by you is not what I meant , "most people will not be affected by internet porn", it is the extreme few like a potential Bundy that could be pushed over the edge

I do not know if you have children, if you do will you or do you protect your loved ones as best you can from this source of depravity (THE INTERNET)!!?? The kids now have access you thousand of deviant photos this might make this type of thing is the accepted norm, and in my home it is decidedly not
0 Replies
 
Theages
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 02:02 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Bolding and underling your words isn't going to cover up your blatant backpedaling. Here's what you said in your initial post:

Quote:

This type of stuff on the web is food for people who might use it for gratification or even cause a person to become a serial killer

Now, I'll grant you that this sentence is grammatically incoherent, which could have let to me misinterpreting you as you suggest. Nevertheless, it looks pretty clear to me that you are drawing a link between "this type of stuff on the web" and "becom[ing] a serial killer". In order for you claim to be anything but completely vacuous, this would have to mean that there is a strong causal link between gruesome things and serial killing. You have not demonstrated that in any fashion. As such, I will have to assume that you are making it up.

Also, I never called you insane or libellous. Go back and read what I said again.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 03:40 pm
@Alan McDougall,
I don't think watching that stuff will necessarily make you a killer because you've got to be already there if you're watching it in the first place. Material like this aids the disease and may speed up the process but I think, (and I could be wrong), it takes alot more then watching this stuff to make you a killer. Serial killers have mostly had something terrible/traumatic happen to them, noramlly at a young age and people like this will seek out nasty material not necessarily become a killer after seeing it. If you look at Ted Bundy for example, his mother amongst many things was a prostitute living in one room with her son Ted and often brought men home and it happened in front of him. Basically the mind gets damaged and copes in ways that are very unpleasant. He even begged the authorities to take him in before he went on a killing spree.
0 Replies
 
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 05:03 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;83215 wrote:
All I asked was whether your opinion was an informed opinion. All you said is that you were offering an opinion, as if that settled the matter.


Apologies.

I am aware that mine is probably a minority opinion but I suppose, having started the ball rolling, I should present some evidence for it.

There are numerous articles on high rates of teen pregnancy and STI's in the US, UK and Australia. I have read that certain STI's are in epidemic proportions in the youth of many advanced countries.

Some references: Pregnancies and STD's up amongst US Teens

More girls under 14 having sex

it is also indispuitable that many teens, and children, are exposed to hard core pornography via the internet, whether as a result of searching for it, or accidentally. It is easy to be blase about this, but think back to 1995 or before, it would actually be impossible for most children to be exposed to imagery of this kind. It was strictly regulated or banned. As for the effects,

Quote:
In one study of 600 people junior high school and older, found 91% of males and 82% of females were already exposed to hard core pornography. 66% of of those males and 40% of the females reported wanting to try some of the sexual acts they saw in the pornographic material. 31% of the males and 18% of the females went through with it and did some of the things they saw. Source


Australian media commentators noted this week that Dolly magazine, a publicaton addressed to the 'pre-teen market', girls from 9-14 years, now carries articles on the finer points of the acts depicted in porn:

Quote:
"Take Dolly magazine. It recently had a section "OMG my boyfriend wants me to ...", Gale says. "Among the things discussed were giving him head, a handjob and having anal sex. But it wasn't about how to deal with it if the subject came up. It was how it was done." Source


Meanwhile, sexual addiction - a term that didn't even exist 10 years ago - has suddenly become a worldwide phenomenon. This can only be because of internet pornography. There would be no other means to create such an effective distribution channel.

As for the 'destruction of intimacy', I hardly think this is an argument that needs much proving. Traditionally, the sexual act was something that took place in private in the context of a sanctified relationship. High definition videos of group sexual acts and gross perversions of various kinds completely undermines the social and spiritual significance of human sexual intimacy.

Now I am aware of the arguments of civil libertarians. We have quite a few able representatives of this view here in Australia. One of them has even formed a political party to represent sexual lbertarianism. No matter what evidence you present, they will always have a counter argument along the lines of (1) it is all a matter of better sex education (2) people should be allowed to view or do whatever they like and so on.

But my opinion is - and this is my opinion, I realise that many don't share it - porn is evil, it exploits the base instincts of human beings, undermines intimacy, sexualises children and young adults, and is generally a cause of suffering, illness, maladjustment and social disorder.

In short, porn is evil.

---------- Post added 08-15-2009 at 09:09 AM ----------

I would be interested to hear what some of the 'moral objectivists' would have to say about this topic.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 05:13 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;83328 wrote:
Apologies.

I am aware that mine is probably a minority opinion but I suppose, having started the ball rolling, I should present some evidence for it.

There are numerous articles on high rates of teen pregnancy and STI's in the US, UK and Australia. I have read that certain STI's are in epidemic proportions in the youth of many advanced countries.

Some references: Pregnancies and STD's up amongst US Teens

More girls under 14 having sex

it is also indispuitable that many teens, and children, are exposed to hard core pornography via the internet, whether as a result of searching for it, or accidentally. It is easy to be blase about this, but think back to 1995 or before, it would actually be impossible for most children to be exposed to imagery of this kind. It was strictly regulated or banned. As for the effects,



Australian media commentators noted this week that Dolly magazine, a publicaton addressed to the 'pre-teen market', girls from 9-14 years, now carries articles on the finer points of the acts depicted in porn:



Meanwhile, sexual addiction - a term that didn't even exist 10 years ago - has suddenly become a worldwide phenomenon. This can only be because of internet pornography. There would be no other means to create such an effective distribution channel.

As for the 'destruction of intimacy', I hardly think this is an argument that needs much proving. Traditionally, the sexual act was something that took place in private in the context of a sanctified relationship. High definition videos of group sexual acts and gross perversions of various kinds completely undermines the social and spiritual significance of human sexual intimacy.

Now I am aware of the arguments of civil libertarians. We have quite a few able representatives of this view here in Australia. One of them has even formed a political party to represent sexual lbertarianism. No matter what evidence you present, they will always have a counter argument along the lines of (1) it is all a matter of better sex education (2) people should be allowed to view or do whatever they like and so on.

But my opinion is - and this is my opinion, I realise that many don't share it - porn is evil, it exploits the base instincts of human beings, undermines intimacy, sexualises children and young adults, and is generally a cause of suffering, illness, maladjustment and social disorder.

In short, porn is evil.

---------- Post added 08-15-2009 at 09:09 AM ----------

I would be interested to hear what some of the 'moral objectivists' would have to say about this topic.


But we were, I thought, discussing the internet, and porn on the internet. Not the merits or demerits of porn.
0 Replies
 
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 05:52 pm
@Alan McDougall,
I have, accordingly, unsubsribed, and sorry for the diversion.
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:38 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;83328 wrote:
Apologies.

I am aware that mine is probably a minority opinion but I suppose, having started the ball rolling, I should present some evidence for it.

There are numerous articles on high rates of teen pregnancy and STI's in the US, UK and Australia. I have read that certain STI's are in epidemic proportions in the youth of many advanced countries.

Some references: Pregnancies and STD's up amongst US Teens

More girls under 14 having sex


a) the latter point isn't necessarily an issue

b) neither of them are necessarily linked to porn, you're making a post hoc argument
0 Replies
 
William
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 09:12 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;83157 wrote:

I am not a brainwashed political person, William
And don't make me report your ad hominem
Fair warning


This is the second time you have warned me. In all the due respect I can muster, I find your arrogance humorous.

William
0 Replies
 
 

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