mathematics define or create reality?

@The Architect phil,

Sometimes one times one does not add up to two?

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;62596 wrote:

Sometimes one times one does not add up to two?

One times one does not add up to two.
Sometimes one plus one does not add up to two, either.

"It is important to me to learn what I do not know" //
"The more that you learn, the less you know"
What Now!?

1 Reply

@The Architect phil,

Nameless;
All our words are equasions...All are concepts are equalitiies...The concept Dog would not be worth much if it did not equal the reality dog...Trying to learn French taught me that to be, etre and to have, avoir are used to conjugate all other verbs...We are forever making statements about qualities things have or qualities things are...And where would philosophy be without the declarative sentence???

As far as Al's statement goes, it may be admitted that often we say more of ourselves than we say of objective reality in the process of being philosophical...

---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 AM ----------

Alan McDougall wrote:

Sometimes one times one does not add up to two?

One is never one except in reality...Since one never equals one except in gross, in math, or in identity, and by agreement... Where is your equal on this earth???.Does an eye equal an eye??? On what planet???

---------- Post added at 07:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 AM ----------

nameless wrote:

One times one does not add up to two.
Sometimes one plus one does not add up to two, either.

"It is important to me to learn what I do not know" //
"The more that you learn, the less you know"
What Now!?

The greater awareness of ones ignorance should save us all from stupidity... Look a Socrates...The more he knew the less he did...His students, young, which is to say only half educated were all for action and all for stupidity...So, no knowledge is complete without the relative understanding of our ignorance...Compared to what I knew yesterday I am brilliant...Compared to what is left to learn I am a fool...

1 Reply

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

One times one does not add up to two.
Sometimes one plus one does not add up to two, either.

"It is important to me to learn what I do not know" //
"The more that you learn, the less you know"
What Now!?

Theory of Relativity now proven fact , can make this happen , time dilation

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

Theory of Relativity now proven fact , can make this happen , time dilation

Theories are supported, never proved, and always disproved...

2 Replies

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

Theories are supported, never proved, and always disproved...

The THEORY OF RELATIVITY, IF YOU READ WHAT I STATED IS NOW A FACT AND NO LONGER A THEORY

IT IS NOW "THE FUNDAMENTAL LAW OF GENERAL RELATIVITY"

Always disproved? that is an inaccurate generalization

Oh man oh man patience is needed by my poor old soul

Back to mathematics can I add a little

Mathematics clearly underpin of much of nature, it is sometimes deary slogs of logic

Maths has always been a cornerstone of classical education . If a body of observations cannot be equated into a mathematical model, it is very unlikely to be accepted in the scientific community

Paul Davies stated that to the outsider maths is a strange, abstract world of horrendous technicality, full of weird symbols and complicated procedures in an impenetrable language

No one who is really informed in the complex field of mathematics can ever grasp the full significance of the natural order that is woven so deeply into the fabric of reality

We should develop a new kind of mathematics, one that deals with patterns of fine tunes interactions

It is strange to think that some peoples count only one and two and many, that is their mathematics

The concept of zero perplexed even great mathematician in former epochs, thus AD started at one instead of zero and this has only been corrected lately

We now use CE or Common Era

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

I own a book you might benefit from, like myself if I could find the time to more than scan it...It is called Critique of Scientific Reason, By Kurt Hubner translated by Dixon and Dixon Jr....It seems like a very good read, and a steal at the price I paid of 6.95...In any event it covers much of that desire for universal Laws..And in a way makes short work of them... I cannot anticipate his argument for you having not read it in depth, yet; still, this is a big place, and while we believe much of what we see here is universally a fact...If time separates us from all other places, we should know that time alone changes everything, and we have a sort of problem in being finite, that we can only see the infinte through a certain lens which distorts all with colors we alone can give meaning to...

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@Fido,

Fido wrote:

Theories are supported, never proved, and always disproved...

Good theories are never disproved: they are only better explained.

1 Reply

@The Architect phil,

No, some theories, good enough for their time are pretty well disposed of, and you know they are dead when no one knows anything about them... There are still racists, for example...It is just that race explains so little of behavior that no one teaches it or preaches it but idiots...

The pythagoreans with their beliefs regarding spirits are another example... We take what is of use, and quietly dispose of the rest...

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@Fido,

Fido;62628 wrote:

Nameless;
All our words are equasions...All are concepts are equalitiies...

I can see how some might see things that way, but, again, it is a matter of Perspective. You are stating youPerspective as if it were a universal truth. It is only a 'feature' of 'Reality', just like all Perspectives.

Quote:

where would philosophy be without the declarative sentence???

Philosophy appears to be 'critical thought', not 'universal declarations'.
Perhaps 'declarative sentences' belong to religion rather than philosophy?

1 Reply

@Bones-O,

Bones-O! wrote:

Good theories are never disproved: they are only better explained.

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan McDougall
Theory of Relativity now proven fact , can make this happen , time dilation

Theories are supported, never proved, and always disproved.(Your previous quote)..

So according to that logic,nothing is real everything is an illusion or delusion and maths is basically useless?

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;62789 wrote:

So according to that logic,nothing is real everything is an illusion or delusion and maths is basically useless?

Please quote the 'logic' to which you refer, that you have 'translated' it thus?

1 Reply

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

Please quote the 'logic' to which you refer, that you have 'translated' it thus?

The logic of Bones-O quote not directed at you, refer to a good dictionary if you are confused

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;62796 wrote:

The logic of Bones-O quote not directed at you, refer to a good dictionary if you are confused

You posted my quote, and his, together, then you offered a vague response. You were far from clear (due to your own 'confusion', no doubt), and your smart-a$$ response here ends our discussion.
nameless out

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@nameless,

nameless wrote:

I can see how some might see things that way, but, again, it is a matter of Perspective. You are stating youPerspective as if it were a universal truth. It is only a 'feature' of 'Reality', just like all Perspectives.

Philosophy appears to be 'critical thought', not 'universal declarations'.
Perhaps 'declarative sentences' belong to religion rather than philosophy?

You would be closer to the truth to say: Form of Reality... Words are forms, as concepts...They help us to judge and classify our reality just as numbers do...Apart from reflecting an individual perspective, they tend to make the subjective experience seem objective, and shared, as it is in fact... When Schopenhauer said: the world is my idea, he had just this quality in mind, that we experience it as ours, inividually, but it is ours, meaning all of ours through a medium of our shared forms... All forms are forms of relationship...We can relate our experience of reality through our forms, and relate to each other through our forms just as we now relate through the form of the internet, and the form of philosophy... And yes; I do believe that we desire to reach that point of making an affirmative statement of reality, and that all people should do as did Schopenhauer, and many others...Try to say one true thing, and it will either illuminate the situation, or be quickly seen through...

---------- Post added at 07:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 AM ----------

Alan McDougall wrote:

The logic of Bones-O quote not directed at you, refer to a good dictionary if you are confused

Careful of your suggestions, Al...I love dictionaries, and I own many of them; but a resort to authority, even the dictionary is a last resort...

---------- Post added at 07:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 AM ----------

nameless wrote:

You posted my quote, and his, together, then you offered a vague response. You were far from clear (due to your own 'confusion', no doubt), and your smart-a$$ response here ends our discussion.
nameless out

Chill man!... If you ever expect to be impotent when you grow up you cannot afford to lose patience with Al, with your self, or with anyone...Honest to God...You can learn somthing from anyone, but only with patience can they learn something from you...

1 Reply

@The Architect phil,

You're a patient man, Alan. Do you expect to be impotent when you grow up?

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@Bones-O,

"Theory of Relativity now proven fact , can make this happen , time dilation."

Truth embedded in falsity. Theories cannot be proven in the mathematical sense of the word without taking a phenomena to be in a vacuum, which is why it is only cogent that theories be disproved in the mathematical sense as only a single contradictory occurrence is sufficient to show subtle flaws in a theory thereby necessitating a reformulation.

I wanted to also state: Mathematics is a part of reality, therefore asking whether it defines or creates reality is absurd. It is a method of organizing one aspect of reality, logical patterns, nothing more. Hence is it a tool which allows us greater insight and power to manipulate our surroundings by providing a succinct framework with which to view and utilize patterns that occur naturally.

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@The Architect phil,

Zet...I think this is well stated... Math is essential to our understanding, and is also a part of our social reality... We cannot live without it...As far as moral forms and reality go, it is necessary for us to find the logic of human behavior if we expect to learn anything about it, or change it in any sense for the better... We have all heard of the evil twin... Twinning is quite common among American Indians...It is because they tested the twins to find which one was evil and killed one, or adopted him out... Because the mother was under less stress, she survived, and because she survived the child, and the gene survived...If we say it is not logical that death can result in life we are right, but only to an extent...From our perspective we cannot say what is logical in judging the past, and the people of the past...In fact we should never try to judge anything without sure and certain knowledge....

1 Reply

@Fido,

applied logic). Humans are not. Human assumptions are the power source of logic as a tool, thus human assumptions being uniquely bound to us by our psychology and culture create the human sense of what is rational and what is irrational. Logic is a framework that guides rationality through the assumptions or axioms presented by the user, nothing more.

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido;62811 wrote:

nameless wrote:

I can see how some might see things that way, but, again, it is a matter of Perspective. You are stating youPerspective as if it were a universal truth. It is only a 'feature' of 'Reality', just like all Perspectives.

Philosophy appears to be 'critical thought', not 'universal declarations'.
Perhaps 'declarative sentences' belong to religion rather than philosophy?

You would be closer to the truth to say: Form of Reality... Words are forms, as concepts...

"The" truth?!?
Closer to your truth perhaps?
As I see it, there is One Reality (One Universe, One Existence, One). The One has 'features'. Reality has 'features' as a gemstone has facets. Together they are 'gem'; component atoms, metals, facets.. are all 'features' of the 'Reality' of Gem.
Without contextual 'features', Mind remains 'undifferentiated potential'/chaos. That is what Perspective allows, 'differentiation' of potential, dualization, comtext.
Words 'point' to concepts...

Quote:

They help us to judge and classify our reality just as numbers do...

Perhaps there is 'direct experience of reality', and 'what we think about it'?

Quote:

When Schopenhauer said: the world is my idea, he had just this quality in mind, that we experience it as ours, inividually, but it is ours, meaning all of ours through a medium of our shared forms...

'Judging and classifying are ego/vanity, nothing new there, believing the little seductive lies...
The world is as perceived by each of us, exactly!

Quote:

All forms are forms of relationship...We can relate our experience of reality through our forms,

That seems one unnecessary step removed from 'reality'.
Relationship is duality is context.
Existence is context, exactly as perceived.

Quote:

and relate to each other through our forms

It sounded like tortured logic and fantasy when Plato said it and still does. Occam's razor removes the unnecessary notion of 'forms'.

Quote:

Try to say one true thing

We do not speak 'truth', the best that we can do is to speak honestly, but in any case, every word we speak is 'true' as it is a 'feature' of the 'Complete Reality'/Universe!

Quote:

nameless wrote:
You posted my quote, and his, together, then you offered a vague response. You were far from clear (due to your own 'confusion', no doubt), and your smart-a$$ response here ends our discussion.

Chill man!... If you ever expect to be impotent when you grow up you cannot afford to lose patience with Al

I lost no patience. I made an observation and a response.
Besides, I never expect to grpw-up. (Hahahaha, impotence would certainly make life simpler! Hahaha...)

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mathematics define or create reality?

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