Materialism never answered the questions I have had regarding purpose and being. It is a dead end, and a very quick dead end at that, i.e. You are here, you are gone, and while you are here you are just a zombie following deterministic rules. I don't find that this fits my life at all, and I would have to spend my life wondering why am I doing anything if this was all there was.
This is of course the million dollar question. I am here, and others are here with me and we are all conscious of it. Was that consciousness always here? Or was it conceived by something else that we are not aware of? Always may be possible if we think of space/time differently. When I am asleep, always seems more possible since there is no now, past, or future. Just things happening. I think there are always clues to it all, and it is a matter of putting the pieces together. Something to ponder, I guess.
I enjoy discussing topics like consciousness just for the sheer enjoyment.
Firstly, I dont know why you deny consciousness seeing how that defines who you are in a qualitative sense. Also, the word 'soul' is often associated as being a synonym for 'mind' but to each his own I guess.
Second, the reason why there is a distinction between the mind and the brain is because one is subjective and the other is objective: qualitative and quantitative. Can a third party 'see' consciousness in another individual? No, of course not. Otherwise it wouldnt be a subjective phenomenon. So where do we 'look' for the mind? The brain. The brain generates consciousness. When I say "the state of the brain is the state of the mind" it means exactly that: whatever the state that the brain is in the mind will be as well. So for example if we take an fMRI machine and hook it up to your brain and see all the different neurons firing via blood flow (hemodynamics) third parties can establish what you are thinking. Remember that states of the mind are an empirical problem for third parties because as we have said before: consciousness is a first-person ontology.
However, with your last question you seem to be hitting on the idea of Inverted Spectrum which, if that is the case, I will respond but if not then I think I answered it in the above.
Well, as I stated before your wording can be interpreted in many different ways. And which is why I made the response to Jeepers. 'Entire physicality' is a bit ambiguous. If I lose my arm can I still be conscious? Yes. Although, if I lose my heart, or lungs, or any vital organ, can I retain my consciousness? No, probably not. The human body is a fully functioning system that is highly interconnected and complex, so we have to be specific about this, right?
As for your last question about humor, I find it a tad irrelevant. Should I find out where humor is 'located' in the brain to answer the question? If that is unobtainable (which it probably is) I dont understand what that accomplishes. Does that merit the stance of hyperdualism or a 'soul'? No. Where does this lead us? We dont need to know EVERYTHING about the human mind/brain to know the two are interrelated, and actually there is plenty of things we have no clue about when looking at the neural network of a brain.
"Dream delivers us to dream, and there is no end to illusion. Life is a train of moods like a string of beads, and, as we pass through them, they prove to be many-colored lenses which paint the world their own hue, and each shows only what lies in its focus." --Emerson
I imagine that I was once a fetus. I was born. According to my mother I could speak in complete sentences as 12 months of age. Was I conscious through all of that? I don't think so. I don't think there was any 'me' to be conscious. I can't account for when or how it started, though. Apparently I wasn't conscious of becoming conscious.
Even though 'materialism' doesnt promote that I will instead ask the question: why do you accept an idea as true and valid based solely on the theme of a security blanket that helps you sleep at night?
Consciousness is an innate ability to ponder reality and both, how it affects us, and how we affect it. This is not individual, this is universal among humans. The difference is the 'degree' of consciousness.
When you say always do you mean infinity? That's a subject that never fails to make my head spin a bit when I'm trying to fall asleep.
How can something that has no end ever have had a beginning? Why is it so difficult to imagine infinity working backward?
Then again, my grasp of these matters in tenuous at best and I would enjoy having someone authoritatively explain to me how infinity began, including a sentence or two about what was there before infinity began.
That'll be enough of that now, eh? Let's move on shall we?"
I've kind of wandered off a bit, but is this what you mean by thinking of space/time differently? If not, I'm curious about what you do mean.
I can't remember who, but I remember someone once talking about there being no such thing as past or present, and no such thing as the passage of time in a conventionally conceived manner, that there was only "this everlasting now."
Same here. Sometimes I like to juggle belief systems and take a favorable stance toward something I might in fact find ludicrous or, conversely, I might mock and ridicule some belief that I actually cherish. I find that it's a useful exercise for examining a variety of subjects. This does tend to irritate folks and tarnish my credibility.
At some point I'd like to discuss/explore more deeply ideas about how the Universal Consciousness you've mentioned relates to free will or the lack thereof, but it's been a long day and I'm running out of steam.
Actually I feel I am not really contributing anything useful in this thread ...
I do not accept the idea as true. It is the what makes most sense to me right now based upon all that I have observed and what I feel.
1) It feels like I do have a purpose.
2) It feels like I do want to live.
3) It feels like many of the skills that I have developed over a very long time, not just one life time.
4) It feels like I am connected to people via emotions, feelings, longings (I miss my son), and a desire to share my experiences with others, such as my girlfriend and friends.
5) If feels like I want to keep searching for more knowledge of where I came from.
6) I feels like things go back and forth.
7) It feels like I do have a choice in which direction I can move.
In my world, the one that I live in, everything does have purpose. Emotions and feelings have a purpose.
You didnt really answer the question besides "it makes sense".
Feelings dont determine the validity or truth value of anything. There's a reason why the first thing you learn when going into a debate class or a critical thinking course is NOT to appeal to emotion. Otherwise, I could just respond like you: I feel like your wrong, so you are wrong.
So for example if we take an fMRI machine and hook it up to your brain and see all the different neurons firing via blood flow (hemodynamics) third parties can establish what you are thinking.
Would you have a reference for that? It conflicts with some other reading I have been doing on the subject. I would be curious to know how you would translate MRI images into words and pictures.
... personally, I thought you were ... Merleau-Ponty certainly shines a phenomenological light on what experience is, but phenomenology is metaphysics-free (it has little to say regarding what experience is of) ... along the lines of Alva Noe (cognition as the dynamic nexus of brain-body-world), I think you would also find both Pfeifer and Bongard's "How the Body Shapes the Way We Think: A New View of Intelligence" (the robotics perspective on situated embodiment) and Rockwell's "Neither Brain nor Ghost: A Nondualist Alternative to the Mind-Brain Identity Theory" (a philosopher pushes the envelope of the situated embodiment concept) to be interesting ...
Materialism never answered the questions I have had regarding purpose and being. It is a dead end, and a very quick dead end at that, i.e. You are here, you are gone, and while you are here you are just a zombie following deterministic rules. I don't find that this fits my life at all, and I would have to spend my life wondering why am I doing anything if this was all there was.
Even though 'materialism' doesnt promote that . . . . .
And this is where my point is made.
It reminds me of that saying 'be careful what you wish for':bigsmile: Seriously though, thanks for all that info KJ, sure looks like it answers the question in the affirmative - I will have to find some time to take it in.
---------- Post added 09-04-2009 at 02:22 PM ----------
Thanks, Paul, and yes, I have just discovered this whole line of 'cognitivism' and it is opening some amazing doors. After that earlier thread on 'consciousness as a biological problem' I discovered that Alva Noe book 'Out of our Heads' and also The Embodied Mind by Francisco Varela. Now the latter actually has a relationship with Buddhism, one of my other main interests, which is also metaphysics-free in the sense you refer to above. (In fact the whole relationship between Buddhism and phenomenology is another fascinating topic....)
I also feel, from what I have read about the Noe book, it actually supported some aspects of the argument I put forward inthat other thread, specifically:
Very close to a point I was trying to make.
But the problem is finding time to read all this stuff. It is like a year's postgraduate research just to get your head around it. I will try and assimilate it (Phenomenology of Perception is not an easy read) and present some relevant points because I think it is an important perspective and a non-mystical alternative to the neuro-scientific approach.
The WE,I,US ETC., is all ways to describe the form we use at this time, we identify with our bodies for the sake of identifying our individuality. Its hard to be just another apple in the barrel and we need to be able to distinguish our loved ones from the rest of the apples somehow.
But this still presupposes that there is a 'we', 'I' etc in the first place. You refer to "our" bodies and "our" individuality. This implies that the bodies and individuality are properties of "us", and hence conceptually separable from "us". So you need to define "we/us" independently of our properties. I find it hard to see how you could do this while denying a self, since "we/us" seems to be equivalent in meaning to "ourselves".
When you say "the form we use at this time", do you mean to imply that we have some kind of choice? Could I choose (or could I at some point have chosen) which body my consciousness in currently located in?
I am writing on a computer. You can know all there is to know about this computer, be you a chip scientist from Intel or a Mac software engineer, but that won't necessarily mean that you can make sense of what is being written on here. You could also probably zoom in on the hard drive and find the actual bytes which represent this particular text, on the drive of a server. But then, if they are not interpreted by the operating system, displayed on a screen, and read by another human, how can they actually said to mean anything? Of course every conscious act has a neural correlate. But can the neural correlate be said to constitute a conscious act? That is the question.
Here is a video interview with Alva Noe called 'What Makes Brains Conscious?' Runs for about 10 minutes and is well worth watching. And here's a question: during the interview, he denies he is a [8-letter word, begins with 'v']. But based on what he says after denying it, I think this denial might be questioned. What is it that he denies, and why might this be questioned?