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Stupidity: A Real Problem or Not?

 
 
William
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 10:39 am
@Khethil,
Speaking of Britney Spears of whom I know little about, really. It seems she and many other, once "little darlings" have befallen the hex of fame and fortune of living "in" the limelight that is infested with every type of sycophant and parasite just waiting to take a bite. It's about too much money, not enough sense in a drug stupor that I cannot describe. They list into the hundreds and some are indeed dead. 'Hooray for Hollywood" and the adults who groomed them for the fame and fortune spending the spoils at the expense of their children.:letme-at-em: Then there is Dakota Fanning, the rare exception to the rule.....................so far?

William
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 10:49 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;83573 wrote:
What is there to know? She is an air-head, and so are most people who find her interesting (except those for whom she ia a meal-ticket). And, oh yes, I forgot, she does not wear underwear.


I could never understand this culture of "everyone's view is equally valid"

In fact, most people who say that we need to respect everyone's views equally really don't

They give respect to mediocrity and blather, and disdain profundity and good sense

Here we have people sticking up for Britney Spears just for the sake of being contrary, even though she is a has-been formulaic teenybopper pop star who has to expose her cooch in public or shave her head to generate more media attention

And yes stupidity is a huge problem. In a very real sense it is the only problem. Something drastic needs to be done to get rid of stupidity
0 Replies
 
Mel phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:16 am
@Khethil,
I am a South African [ I'll keep any opinions about the apparent intelligence in the US to myself Surprised - for now] so from another point of view ...

Of course you take for granted the facility (technology) and complete luxury (affordability) of the ability to participate in these discussions or just be privy to information.

And this implies (based on the arguments in this thread) that the absence of either (technology or affordability) = stupidity or ignorance or both [I am not exactly sure what your position is since the thread reaches no conclusive point of departure] and this I have a problem with because there are many people in South Africa who do not have this good fortune.

They do not have access to information - other than that which is provided to them. They trust the information that is presented simply because it would never occur to them that information (or 'facts') can simply be created. They have been 'cleverly' educated along these lines for obvious reasons. And then they do (well intentioned) but sometimes very 'stupid' things.

Does this make them stupid? No of course not! Stupid is only a pathetic judgement you can make after you have all of the information!

Does this make them willingly ignorant OR disinterested? No of course not - they are paying attention and are willingly taking active action against all that they know and understand of the situation.

Does this make them 'vulnerable'? Yes.

So then where does the responsibility for defeating ignorance start? Who is (morally) responsible to restore this ignorance / 'stupidity' gap?
And how does this method/ process relate to the US (are you really that different)?


PS:
Khethil;83518 wrote:
Well, we've descended down quite into the details on what's knowable.

The issue in this thread is concerned with issues of world, national and historical relevance; lack of which would deprive someone of the ability to contextualize their awareness, ability to vote intelligently and have *some* sense of history, in order to be a responsible citizen.


One person one vote - does not exactly demand a stupidity (by your standards) test and ignorance is exactly what keeps the political monster afloat (IN MOST COUNTRIES).
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:21 am
@Khethil,
Yes Mel but even (or, maybe, especially) in countries where information is available everywhere virtually for free, people are still painfully ignorant
0 Replies
 
Mel phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:25 am
@Mel phil,


---------- Post added 08-16-2009 at 07:29 PM ----------

Hi Oden

The world is a smaller place than your think ... we should look toward global solutions.

Besides the principle still applies - I am sure that there are people in the US who cannot afford to spend a spare second (or cent) thinking about anything other than the building they are constructing or the dishes they are washing ....
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:30 am
@Mel phil,
Mel;83589 wrote:
Oh ... and any ideas how to cure the stupidity of arrogance will certainly be useful here?


Was that aimed at me

Here in the US, half the people believe in the literal Biblical creation

That's pretty ignorant Mel

If calling a spade a spade makes me arrogant well damn **** me
Mel phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:33 am
@odenskrigare,
Nope sorry that wasn't intended at you (it was a general comment) - bad timing on my part.

Yep ignorance is a big problem all over.

I do believe that it is a very deliberate result though.
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:36 am
@Mel phil,
Mel;83589 wrote:
The world is a smaller place than your think ... we should look toward global solutions.

Besides the principle still applies - I am sure that there are people in the US who cannot afford to spend a spare second (or cent) thinking about anything other than the building they are constructing or the dishes they are washing ....


I have a hard time believing that

Also it still doesn't give people an excuse not to know things like "the Earth goes around the Sun" (about 20% US citizens believe in geocentrism)

These are the kinds of things you should know if you have a pulse

One can learn a lot by not watching television incessantly and not pumping out kids and not taking up drinking and drugs in middle school btw
Mel phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:50 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;83593 wrote:
I have a hard time believing that

Also it still doesn't give people an excuse not to know things like "the Earth goes around the Sun" (about 20% US citizens believe in geocentrism)

These are the kinds of things you should know if you have a pulse

One can learn a lot by not watching television incessantly and not pumping out kids and not taking up drinking and drugs in middle school btw



Well I'm talking about people who DON'T even have a TV; who can't afford to think about drugs (except maybe a beer and smoke on occasion); 'Pumping out kids' is probably something they could afford to do - except HIV is a big worry here.
It's a paradigm shift of note , you wouldn't believe it.:perplexed:

Anyway ... it bothers me that people have opinions about things they haven't checked out for themselves (more of the same ... I guess it's also just ignorance?)
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:54 am
@Mel phil,
Mel;83595 wrote:
Anyway ... it bothers me that people have opinions about things they haven't checked out for themselves (more of the same ... I guess it's also just ignorance?)


I had the US in mind specifically

But the situation is similar in other industrialized countries

YouTube - Promoe - Svennebanan (Officiell Video!)

This song, Svennebanan, is all about upper middle class idiots in Sweden, who reject every single one of the many opportunities they have to turn themselves into decent people

I can translate it if you like
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 11:54 am
@odenskrigare,
Let us take a simple example.

Recent studies have shown that diets that consist primarily of vegetables, fruits, nuts and legumes, and minimize meats (especially less than 1/4 pound red meat per day) will increase lifespan and decrease chronic ailments including heart disease and dementia/Alzheimer's.

How many people on this forum have modified their diet with this information? How many intend to modify their diet? How many will not? If you do not, does this make you ignorant, stupid, stubborn, or what?

Ditto for moderate exercise of at least 20 minutes a day? Do you do this? If not then what does this make you?

Rich
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:04 pm
@richrf,
richrf;83597 wrote:
Let us take a simple example.

Recent studies have shown that diets that consist primarily of vegetables, fruits, nuts and legumes, and minimize meats (especially less than 1/4 pound red meat per day) will increase lifespan and decrease chronic ailments including heart disease and dementia/Alzheimer's.


Well there are multiple utilities in question

One is the utility of eating animal carcasses

One is the utility of living longer

One is the utility of living without disease

and so on

A person balances these utilities rather than thinking "oh shi that might give me Alzheimer's I won't touch it at all"

btw I wonder whether it's red meat that's deleterious per se or just high amounts of saturated fats and/or cholesterol?

what about palm and coconut oil everyday? can that be good for you?

btw science is evil don't rely on it

richrf;83597 wrote:
Ditto for moderate exercise of at least 20 minutes a day? Do you do this? If not then what does this make you?


Ignorant

And fat on top of that

A winning combination
Mel phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:08 pm
@Khethil,
I need to ask a question here ...

Do you guys honestly believe that terms like 'stupidity' and 'ignorance' (for example) can be defined in terms of the US alone?

(PS: Oden, South Africa is an Industrialized country)

---------- Post added 08-16-2009 at 08:09 PM ----------

0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:11 pm
@odenskrigare,
I think it's a problem; no, not the most pressing problem but it's a bit hard to deny.

These are people voting, expressing their opinions in public; these are our ambassadors to other places - they teach our young, share the air we breathe, supervise others in the work place, run for office and much, much more.
[INDENT]The effects of this kind of lack of awareness are a I believe its likely a result of cultural priorities combined with the effects of a popular mindset that says, "buy, buy, buy and spend, spend, spend because... who cares!"
[/INDENT] I'll leave you all with some links to watch and ponder. Again, thank you to everyone expressing their thoughts on this. Some show exerpts: [INDENT]Should Some People not Vote?
Stupid in America
Why People think Americans are Stupid
Very Very Stupid Americans

[/INDENT]Thank you
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:13 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;83598 wrote:

A person balances these utilities


Yes, that is what everyone does in their life. And they come up with different answers that they choose for themselves. Some people study physics others dance to Brittany Spears music. One choice doesn't make anyone superior to anyone else.

BTW, I came to the exact same conclusions as these scientific studies are now concluding, on my own, just by observing, over 30 years ago. How to live a healthy life has been known for over 2500 years - maybe even longer. Scientists are just catching up to what is already known. I don't know whether it makes them stupid, ignorant, stubborn, leading a different life, or what ...

Rich
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:14 pm
@Khethil,
richrf I get the impression that you think I'm a pudgy blob with wires coming out of me

like this but fat and more Germanic and male

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/xrdpan/Cover-8.jpg

that's not the case just so you know

I used to be a distance runner
0 Replies
 
Mel phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:15 pm
@Khethil,
Typical America - only Americans can be stupid (relatively speaking of course) LOL
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:29 pm
@Khethil,
Mel;83599 wrote:
I need to ask a question here ...

Do you guys honestly believe that terms like 'stupidity' and 'ignorance' (for example) can be defined in terms of the US alone?

(PS: Oden, South Africa is an Industrialized country)


I know but not quite to the same degree as the US or Sweden (which, you might say, are actually post-industrial)

Khethil;83603 wrote:
I think it's a problem; no, not the most pressing problem but it's a bit hard to deny


Socrates said that ignorance is the only evil

think about it

richrf;83604 wrote:
Yes, that is what everyone does in their life. And they come up with different answers that they choose for themselves. Some people study physics others dance to Brittany Spears music. One choice doesn't make anyone superior to anyone else.


Well rich let's say I assign high utility to luring young men to my home, giving them drugs and then torturing them to death, then keeping the severed heads in my refrigerator

I mean granted I have a different answer in life than most people but hey who are you to judge
0 Replies
 
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:30 pm
@Mel phil,
Now to continue:

Studies have shown that chiropractic and acupuncture to be more effective in certain cases than pharmaceutical drugs, e.g.:

Acupuncture Impacts Brain to Reduce Pain, Alternative Medicine

Acupuncture has been the subject of many pain studies over the years, and many of the results have been encouraging. One study, published in the Archives of Internal Medicine in 2007, found that six months of acupuncture treatment was more effective than conventional treatment for lower back pain. A 2005 study in the British Journal of Medicine reported that acupuncture reduced tension headache rates by nearly 50 percent.

Are patients and physicians who use drugs instead of alternative treatments stupid, ignorant, stubborn, ... ?

In general, I think that it is a rather delicate matter to build up one's own self-image by being dismissive of someone else's choices in life.

Rich

---------- Post added 08-16-2009 at 01:36 PM ----------

odenskrigare;83607 wrote:
Well rich let's say I assign high utility to luring young men to my home, giving them drugs and then torturing them to death, then keeping the severed heads in my refrigerator

I mean granted I have a different answer in life than most people but hey who are you to judge


Yes, and unfortunately there are many, many people in this world who apparently choose to kill as well as do other things to their fellow human beings for reasons that seem to be totally reasonable from their point of view well totally unreasonable from mine: Sudan, Rwanda, Iraq, Chechnya, Pakistan, the U.S., Sweden, Britain, Columbia, .... the list goes on and on and on, with no apparent country or community exempt. Maybe they are all trying to feel superior to their fellow man? I don't know.

Rich
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:37 pm
@Khethil,
classical conditioning

acupuncture - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com


---------- Post added 08-16-2009 at 02:38 PM ----------

richrf;83608 wrote:
Yes, and unfortunately there are many, many people in this world who apparently choose to kill as well as do other things to their fellow human beings for reasons that seem to be totally reasonable from their point of view: Sudan, Rwanda, Iraq, .... the list goes on and on and on, with no apparent country or community exempt. Maybe they are all trying to feel superior to their fellow man? I don't know.


It's their choice in life you have no right to judge rich

btw the human race sucks
 

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