Discussing others truths

@MJA,

I'm not sure I'm understanding your question completely. Truth differs for each of us and sharing our truths and discussing them is as much a part of this forum as is discussing others truths. But then again, what's truth?

Evangelizing is what we want to steer clear of.

I've changed the title of the thread because a simply question mark is not a legitimate title. If this title doesn't reflect your question, please let me know and we'll change it to accurately describe your question... one of which I'm not sure I understand myself.

1 Reply

@Justin,

Justin wrote:

I'm not sure I'm understanding your question completely. Truth differs for each of us and sharing our truths and discussing them is as much a part of this forum as is discussing others truths. But then again, what's truth?

Evangelizing is what we want to steer clear of.

I've changed the title of the thread because a simply question mark is not a legitimate title. If this title doesn't reflect your question, please let me know and we'll change it to accurately describe your question... one of which I'm not sure I understand myself.

Thanks for addressing my ? and you may call it what you will.

But your response has lead me to another ?

Do you consider, Oneness, equality, wisdom, truth, certainty, freedom, love, unity, right, good, and such Evangelizing? Because that is what I write philosophy about, that is me and that is my truth.
How would I ever steer away for what is so crystal clear.
And should I not share that clearity with others,
Must I only live it, and keep it to myself?
Its seems so selfish too me, isn't it?
Perhaps I have no other choice.

Thanks again,

=
MJA

1 Reply

@MJA,

A major part of truth is understanding and I am totally confused, if that tells you anything.

0 Replies

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Do you consider, Oneness, equality, wisdom, truth, certainty, freedom, love, unity, right, good, and such Evangelizing? Because that is what I write philosophy about, that is me and that is my truth.

Not necessarily and I don't believe anyone has ever accused you of evangelizing so I'm still not sure what the original question is. I think we share much of the same truths but everyone vibrates at different levels so truth to you and I may not be truth to another.

MJA wrote:

How would I ever steer away for what is so crystal clear.

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You have the wheel the steering is controlled by you. Nobody here as asked you to steer away from your truth.

MJA wrote:

And should I not share that clearity with others, Must I only live it, and keep it to myself?

I wouldn't think so. We should all be able to share and discuss our clarity with others and the forum offers the opportunity to do so. We cannot force feed each other but our actions and the words we write may just ring truth to another ear and likewise inspire and promote clarity for another. Living with it and keeping it to oneself is a personal choice.

Member blogs would be a good way to express your truth and very soon we will have members that can open social forums and we're going to provide several other resouces for this type of sharing.

We are going to work on getting the blogs on the front page of the forum so they are more visible to others which would spread the reach each of our truths.

1 Reply

@Justin,

When I was into Meditating, After I would get into a heated debate about what someones universal truth was, i would convince that person to sit down and we would stare at each other for ten minutes. After we were able to express our selves so much easier and without regret.

Thats the problem i see with truth. There so much emotion and Altruism behind it. You WANT to share it so badly with everyone. Eventually if you dont return to the fine point where truth exists for you, you end up resenting everyone for not understanding what is truth. Oh how many arguments I can think of where I resented others for not accepting my truth, aka Love.

Good thread.

I was wondering what you guys think about Altruism applied to truth? I think it could maybe be used to understand a certain angle of this complex concept. So if your letting your feelings turn to negative, while trying to explain your truth to others, is that altruistic? Does internal sacrifice count?

i think we could use this as a personal alarm. When we realize we are loosing the Altruistic qualities in sharing truth, then maybe we've entered into the opposite.

1 Reply

@Joe,

Your right Joe about this being a good thread, I surely needed some help with Truth.

Your altruism query is most interesting to me.

I think altruism and ego can and should be treated as One and the same.
You see if One is truthful to himself that truthfulness become truthful to others or all. I recognized this through my own experience most recently.

Because of global warming and the war for oil I decided to sell my car and walk some time ago. I thought it the right thing to do for the environment, nature or mankind. It turns out that by doing what is truly right I have become so much healthier in many ways myself. But that truth I shared through action transends to all. For surely the environment is as equally healthy too.

Then doing right by oneself does right for all, as doing right to all does right by me.

Well done Joe, I like that thought alot, do you?
Thanks,

=
MJA

2 Replies

@MJA,

Hey MJA,

yeah your right. When you live your own truthfulness, it will cause others to live theirs. I think that when this happens people start to realize that they are not so different.

Anyways, applying this to your situation of selling your car to reduce carbon admissions is a great example. The way I see it, if people argue that we leave just the tiniest footprint in carbon compared to natural occurrences, You could easily point out the message your sending. Its about having compassion for the environment you live in. No matter what anybody says, there is nothing wrong with that.

The same goes for recycling. It may be a small effort, but, again, its about the idea of responsible living. Sometimes when someone throws a fact at me about how useless doing something is compared to its outcome, I brush it aside. It seems irrational, but sometimes I wonder if people forget about the basics on purpose to expand their gain.

1 Reply

@Joe,

My ? on discussing truth has been moved too off topic and casual general chit chat?
WOW!
I thought truth was the foundation of philosophy.
And discussing that truth the foundation of this forum.
Questions regarding the discussion of truth is a paramount process to finding truth and helping others do the same. Is it not?
Off topic casual chit chat?
Would this forum move Socrates and his methods here as well?
Would you tell him: here Socrates drink this, we've had enough of you too?
Surely I know now that I've come to the wrong place indeed!
"There's a train at the station, Bye and bye Lord, bye and bye."

=
MJA

1 Reply

@MJA,

You opened this thread in the New Member question forum and it does not belong there and that's why it was moved. If this was meant to be a discussion on truth then it should be placed in a forum that reflects the direction of the thread.

Why don't you suggest where you want this moved and which direction you want to take this thread. This is not a new member question and likewise doesn't belong in that forum.

MJA wrote:

Whoa is me, whoa is me...

I moved this thread to the General Discussion forum as a courtesy because it seems to belong in the Self Help section of the forum if anywhere at all.

MJA wrote:

I thought truth was the foundation of philosophy.
And discussing that truth the foundation of this forum.

Is that your perception? Again, truth is different for everyone and is perceived differently.

MJA wrote:

Questions regarding the discussion of truth is a paramount process to finding truth and helping others do the same. Is it not?

Yeah... so what's your point? The thread was moved because it didn't belong there. Where would you like it moved to? Are we talking metaphysical truth, religious truth, scientific truth... what are we talking about and which direction would you like the topic to go?

MJA wrote:

Would this forum move Socrates and his methods here as well?

No. Why would we do that? If a thread about Confucius was posted in Socrates forum and had nothing to do with Socrates, then it would be moved just as this one was moved.

MJA wrote:

Would you tell him: here Socrates drink this, we've had enough of you too?

??? Sorry, I'm not understanding you here at all. This really makes no sense.

MJA wrote:

Surely I know now that I've come to the wrong place indeed!

If you know you've come to the wrong place and that is indeed your perception, they you are absolutely correct... you are definitely in the wrong place and I'd most certainly suggest you find a place where you can make yourself feel comfortable.

For the record, nobody has ever told you that you could not discuss your truth and nobody has ever deleted, edited or moved any of your posts up until this one. This discomfort you experience seems to be a discomfort you are bringing upon yourself and the sharing of your discomfort is a long way from the sharing of your truth... Unless of course, discomfort is your truth.

2 Replies

@Justin,

Justin wrote:

You opened this thread in the New Member question forum and it does not belong there and that's why it was moved. If this was meant to be a discussion on truth then it should be placed in a forum that reflects the direction of the thread.

Well I am new and a question of how to properly share truth falls under casual chit chat?

Why don't you suggest where you want this moved and which direction you want to take this thread. This is not a new member question and likewise doesn't belong in that forum.

Well I thought it was right where it was, and I thought ? was a good title too.

I moved this thread to the General Discussion forum as a courtesy because it seems to belong in the Self Help section of the forum if anywhere at all.

I think the forum you call 'General discussion' is called 'off topic and casual chit chat' isn't it?
But I agree with you that truth is about self too.

Is that your perception? Again, truth is different for everyone and is perceived differently.

Philosophy is not the love of truth? What is philosophy to you?

Yeah... so what's your point? The thread was moved because it didn't belong there. Where would you like it moved to? Are we talking metaphysical truth, religious truth, scientific truth... what are we talking about and which direction would you like the topic to go?

I was questioning truth, just truth. Where should that go?

No. Why would we do that? If a thread about Confucius was posted in Socrates forum and had nothing to do with Socrates, then it would be moved just as this one was moved.

??? Sorry, I'm not understanding you here at all. This really makes no sense.

Socrates' method of uncovering truth was to question the truth much like I have attempted here myself. That is why I asked if it was Socrates that wrote my questions, would you put his queries here as well?

If you know you've come to the wrong place and that is indeed your perception, they you are absolutely correct... you are definitely in the wrong place and I'd most certainly suggest you find a place where you can make yourself feel comfortable.

You know it takes work to uncover the truth, sorry I've made it so uncomfortable for you, I feel it too.

For the record, nobody has ever told you that you could not discuss your truth and nobody has ever deleted, edited or moved any of your posts up until this one. This discomfort you experience seems to be a discomfort you are bringing upon yourself and the sharing of your discomfort is a long way from the sharing of your truth... Unless of course, discomfort is your truth.

Truth is my philosophy & that's what brings me here.
Can you not see that?
Thanks for responding, I know I haven't made it easy for you.
What brought me to ask these questions was not only the negativity I see in response to me, but in others as well. My effort was only to help clear the way for a better dialog and forum between us all. That is why I thought it correct to place my questions regarding the proper way to share truth in the new members area, because as a new member myself, I want to know the best way to proceed. If my questions are too diificult or too much trouble, I should probably not ask for help again.

And thanks again for trying,

=
MJA

Shouldn't the truth be spoken everywhere and anywhere?

1 Reply

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Truth is my philosophy & that's what brings me here.
Can you not see that?
Thanks for responding, I know I haven't made it easy for you.
What brought me to ask these questions was not only the negativity I see in response to me, but in others as well. My effort was only to help clear the way for a better dialog and forum between us all. That is why I thought it correct to place my questions regarding the proper way to share truth in the new members area, because as a new member myself, I want to know the best way to proceed. If my questions are too diificult or too much trouble, I should probably not ask for help again.

And thanks again for trying,

=
MJA

Shouldn't the truth be spoken everywhere and anywhere?

Im trying to decide what questions about truth you want us to discuss? I think Everyone here based on my short experience here, will do there best to reflect and give honest answers.

But you cannot push there reasonings to much. No one changes instantly. Usually.

As for how we should share truth? I think thats more a question of relating information as simple as possible and working up from there. or Down. lol

Man, I hope you dont leave the forum. Ive read your posts and like your perspective. So stay a while.

I think One of the first truths that should be addressed is between reality and perception. If not in this thread, in another one. What do you think?

1 Reply

@MJA,

MJA, If I might interject here. The truth will be heard no matter where you put it for those who are looking for it. No matter what "other's" consider their "personal truth", it will heard, if indeed it is the truth. If it is not heard and creates an antagonistic response, then there is where you go to work and voice your truth in that it will differ with those who are antagonistic. What you seek is difficult, to say the least. Most, the truth will come as they are ready to receive it. If they are not, then there is very little you can to do. Just be at peace with yourself and speak your mind when the occasion arrises.

William

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@Justin,

Justin;40201 wrote:

Unless of course, discomfort is your truth.

"As soon as our two travelers had taken leave of His Excellency, Candide said to Martin, "Well, I hope you will own that this man is the happiest of all mortals, for he is above everything he possesses."

"But do not you see," answered Martin, "that he likewise dislikes everything he possesses? It was an observation of Plato, long since, that those are not the best stomachs that reject, without distinction, all sorts of ailments."

"True," said Candide, "but still there must certainly be a pleasure in criticising everything, and in perceiving faults where others think they see beauties."

"That is," replied Martin, "there is a pleasure in having no pleasure."

1 Reply

@Pangloss,

MJA wrote:

Truth is my philosophy & that's what brings me here.
Can you not see that?

Truth is why this forum is here. The forum was created and the forum will grow and attract those who it's meant to attract. Truth is a good reason to seek philosophy and I agree with much of what you say in other threads.

MJA wrote:

Thanks for responding, I know I haven't made it easy for you.
What brought me to ask these questions was not only the negativity I see in response to me, but in others as well.

I guess I don't see the negative responses you've seen.

MJA wrote:

My effort was only to help clear the way for a better dialog and forum between us all. That is why I thought it correct to place my questions regarding the proper way to share truth in the new members area, because as a new member myself, I want to know the best way to proceed. If my questions are too diificult or too much trouble, I should probably not ask for help again.

Not a problem and no harm done. We will move this out of general discussion however, this is more of a philosophical question or thread than a newbie question. There's nothing wrong with that. The thread should be moved into the forum somewhere but that's the question, where? If anyone has any ideas, please let me know and we'll get it moved.

MJA wrote:

Shouldn't the truth be spoken everywhere and anywhere?

Well, it should be spoken but consider the fact that we have many speakers and not enough doers or livers. Truth, if spoken in the light of creation is not spoken in words one can hear, it's spoken in action and those that are ready to recognize it will.

I think you should be here MJA but I'm not about to argue with you and I'd rather not think at all. This experience you create on this forum is solely yours and it will be that which you make of it. Nobody is in control of your perception of this place or it's members other than yourself. It is what we make of it. It is the ideas we express by giving a voice to.

Joe wrote:

Man, I hope you dont leave the forum. Ive read your posts and like your perspective. So stay a while.

Ditto on this statement Joe and thank YOU for both of your insightful posts in this thread. MJA, in my opinion is here for a reason and obviously found this forum for a reason and furthermore has over 100 posts for a reason. It takes time... crap, it takes a lifetime and more before we understand the meaning of it all.

Joe wrote:

I think One of the first truths that should be addressed is between reality and perception. If not in this thread, in another one. What do you think?

You aint kiddin there. Reality could very well be perception. Perception could be our reality.

William wrote:

MJA, If I might interject here. The truth will be heard no matter where you put it for those who are looking for it. No matter what "other's" consider their "personal truth", it will heard, if indeed it is the truth. If it is not heard and creates an antagonistic response, then there is where you go to work and voice your truth in that it will differ with those who are antagonistic. What you seek is difficult, to say the least. Most, the truth will come as they are ready to receive it. If they are not, then there is very little you can to do. Just be at peace with yourself and speak your mind when the occasion arrises.

Amen Brother! This is the key to everything we seek. Know thyself and be at peace within and then you cannot help see in others. Truth is and will always be in the living of it and the being of it, not in the speakin of it. Your truth, my truth, our truths are what we are. We can only be a living testimony of our truths. Maybe we should all work on being our truths instead of convincing others to follow our truths.

Pangloss, thanks for the quotes. Please leave a link to these or some sort of credit for the above quotes so we can see them in context, which is importent. Also, that can also be truth can it not? Discomfort is true for many. Poverty is true for many. Hate is true for many. There are a lot of truths.

Good thread MJA and hope you stay in the forum and grow with the rest of us. We have a lifetime ahead and hope you are here to stay. It's up to you and it will be and become only that which YOU make of it.

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@Joe,

Joe wrote:

Im trying to decide what questions about truth you want us to discuss? I think Everyone here based on my short experience here, will do there best to reflect and give honest answers.

But you cannot push there reasonings to much. No one changes instantly. Usually.

As for how we should share truth? I think thats more a question of relating information as simple as possible and working up from there. or Down. lol

Man, I hope you dont leave the forum. Ive read your posts and like your perspective. So stay a while.

I think One of the first truths that should be addressed is between reality and perception. If not in this thread, in another one. What do you think?

Thanks Joe and Justin, for coming to help me understand.
I am looking only for a place to share without harm.
And hoped it was here.

Regarding perception have you read Plato's cave story Joe?
He had problems with your question of reality too.
I believe he never saw the truth of it either, don't you agree?
Science has great dififculty with the question of perception as well.
Heisenberg's uncertainty was all about that question.
And religion well, the new Pope believes all there really is is faith, he can't find the truth or reality either, imagine that!

The truth is simple isn't it?

A Truth Equation

When One's perception equals object perceived, then One is true and the truth is One.

=
MJA

1 Reply

@MJA,

"The Truth is always hidden" says the Greek proverb. One of the ways to discover the truth is by entering in an authentic manner into an open dialogue. By authentic I want to mean a willingness to explain one's position, an acceptance that Truth is not a possession to be owned by one person and delved out to others ex cathedra when in a good mood, and the realisation that each person in the dialogue can influence one's own thinking and expand and deepen it.

If one takes one's thinking seriously, one's life is enfolded and encompassed in it, and it is the result of serious meditation. For this reason, thought is as often as difficult to express to Others as is explaining to someone who one really is; summation leaves out all the intricate and colourful details, but it is only by the patient bringing out these details that one can really understand the person.

To join a philosophic community means, at the very least, to expect---yea, even to desire passionately---one's own views or positions to be challenged with courtesy and at least to be subject to questioning by those wishing to understand it. It is through communication between humans in such philosophic dialogue and discourse, that at least part of the truth may be uncovered.

1 Reply

@jgweed,

jgweed wrote:

"The Truth is always hidden" says the Greek proverb. One of the ways to discover the truth is by entering in an authentic manner into an open dialogue. By authentic I want to mean a willingness to explain one's position, an acceptance that Truth is not a possession to be owned by one person and delved out to others ex cathedra when in a good mood, and the realisation that each person in the dialogue can influence one's own thinking and expand and deepen it.

If one takes one's thinking seriously, one's life is enfolded and encompassed in it, and it is the result of serious meditation. For this reason, thought is as often as difficult to express to Others as is explaining to someone who one really is; summation leaves out all the intricate and colourful details, but it is only by the patient bringing out these details that one can really understand the person.

To join a philosophic community means, at the very least, to expect---yea, even to desire passionately---one's own views or positions to be challenged with courtesy and at least to be subject to questioning by those wishing to understand it. It is through communication between humans in such dialogue and philosophic discourse, that at least part of the truth may be uncovered.

Wow, so beautifully said, thank you and Happy New Year.
Perhaps this thread could be where only the good of truth is spoken and nothing more.
That is what I desire or would like to see most, a place or a thread or a universe Just like this.
Your post would be a great example of that place to me.
A place of truth,

Bravo!

=
MJA

0 Replies

@MJA,

MJA;40261 wrote:

I am looking only for a place to share without harm.

If what you want to 'share' is what you consider to be 'the truth', (and therefore you have nothing to gain or learn from critical thoughtful examination of your 'sharing'), isn't that to be considered 'proselytizing'? Evangelizing? Like 'sharing' the 'Good News'?! It isn't a 'discussion', it is you 'knowing' and us not. It is disrespectful. I understand how my critical examination of your evangelization would make you unhappy, but this is a site for critical thought, not proselytization. The words tumbling from your mouth are no more or less 'true' than any one else's words. Truth is in the perception of the beholder, unless you believe the 'ego' that you, alone, 'possess' the 'Truth', and are on a mission from god to share it with all us poor heathens. This is not the place for such 'religious' and disrespectful antics.

Perhaps the place for you to "share with no harm" (thoughtful challenges that you are obviously unprepared to answer) might be your own website. Then you can 'harm control' what you like. Here, there will be challenges, to your words, your concepts, your stated beliefs, to your intent and method of delivery. If you cannot stand that 'heat' you are in the wrong kitchen!

2 Replies

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

If what you want to 'share' is what you consider to be 'the truth', (and therefore you have nothing to gain or learn from critical thoughtful examination of your 'sharing'), isn't that to be considered 'proselytizing'? Evangelizing? Like 'sharing' the 'Good News'?! It isn't a 'discussion', it is you 'knowing' and us not. It is disrespectful. I understand how my critical examination of your evangelization would make you unhappy, but this is a site for critical thought, not proselytization. The words tumbling from your mouth are no more or less 'true' than any one else's words. Truth is in the perception of the beholder, unless you believe the 'ego' that you, alone, 'possess' the 'Truth', and are on a mission from god to share it with all us poor heathens. This is not the place for such 'religious' and disrespectful antics.

Perhaps the place for you to "share with no harm" (thoughtful challenges that you are obviously unprepared to answer) might be your own website. Then you can 'harm control' what you like. Here, there will be challenges, to your words, your concepts, your stated beliefs, to your intent and method of delivery. If you cannot stand that 'heat' you are in the wrong kitchen!

Sure but that's what the blogs are for and if someone wants to evangelize on their blog, then that's up to them. You blog and your profile are sort of a way of providing a member with their own special area to share their truths. What better way to share than to blog about it.

I think MJA could make use of the blogs... We should all make more use of the blog feature. It's a great way to express oneself without expecting a threaded discussion.

Give it a shot.

0 Replies

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