Olympics

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

The upcoming Olympic Games are set to be held in Beijing, China. For nearly sixty years, the Chinese government has maintained a campaign of terror and repression in Tibet. Well over a million Tibetans are dead. Thousands more are still in custody. Monks and Nuns have been tortured and killed. The great monasteries have been closed and dismantled.

I urge my peers on this forum to have the moral constitution to boycott these games.

Bless those Olympic athletes who have already decided not to attend or compete.

Are you going to boycott everything made in china? These games are about everything that is not ploitics and that to boycott the games is an exclusionary aproach that won't really help. Isolation is one of the factors that facilitate china's lagging civil rights. I think that an event such as the olympics has the ability to act as a catylis for change in China and that the games competitors will not be honored by a boycott. China's hosting the event will expose China's people to the rest of the world and help them feel connected.

I see the point of your position and share your incredulance at the shamefull human rights in China (and alot of other places). Violations of human rights should come with a price for the violators and the olimpics is a giant reward, so it seems that it was a bad decision to have the games held in China, however to continue other benificial relationships (trade) with China and boycott the games seems like it would punish the athletes and that is not really what we want is it?

There are plenty of countries that participate in the games that have human rights violations so where do you draw the line? Should athletes from those countries be participants? I think America has human rights violations of it's own. So I dissagree that the olympics is the right venue for punishing China's government.

1 Reply

@ogden,

I try to buy as little as possible from China; I try to buy as many of my goods from small, local producers.

While the Olympic games are not about politics, hosting the Olympic games is a great privilege. The games boost local economies and promote the host nation to the rest of the world.

The Chinese government is not isolated, and boycotting the games will hardly further any isolation. As citizens of some other nation in the world, a boycott of China does more to pressure your own government to reconsider the way in which they deal with China, than to isolate the Chinese government.

Allowing a nation like China to host these games is like allowing Nazi Germany to host the games. The 1936 Olympics saved no one.

And yes, China has terrible human rights violations. Sure, they are not alone, but even my United States loses the pissing contest when we start to count bodies.

China has been allowed to carry on as it does in Tibet, and the rest of the country, because the rest of the world sits idly by unwilling to step up because China is such a lucrative trade opportunity. Allowing China to host these games is coupe for the Chinese government - free publicity of the very best kind and a great deal of money.

No nation is without some blame, but when the death toll from the ethnic cleansing campaign climbs into the millions, and an entire culture is being systematically eradicated - here there is no best venue for punishment, here there is no punishment. Instead there is the right the thing do, and then there is ignoring the plight of the people living within Chinese occupied territory.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Hello Didymos, I was late in responding because I had to get my appendix removed (ouch). I feel better now though:)

Didymos Thomas wrote:

I try to buy as little as possible from China; I try to buy as many of my goods from small, local producers.

Thats great I support your effort, but It would take a masively inclusive multi nation grass-roots effort to affect China in this way. I guess you are saying that if we all did our part we could effect change. I'm guilty for buying alot of things from China, but thats what a free market society is about. Maybe the US should'nt have granted china most favord nation trade status?

Again though, I think that exclussion of China is not the way to go.

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While the Olympic games are not about politics, hosting the Olympic games is a great privilege. The games boost local economies and promote the host nation to the rest of the world.

I see your point and agree thats what I meant when I said that the Olympic games is a great reward. I wonder what the reasoning was on the Olympic commity to hold the games there, do you really think they forgot about China poor human right record?

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The Chinese government is not isolated, and boycotting the games will hardly further any isolation. As citizens of some other nation in the world, a boycott of China does more to pressure your own government to reconsider the way in which they deal with China, than to isolate the Chinese government.

Chinas profound isolation is rather hard to ignore starting with the Great Wall. More recently I would site travel restrictions and obscurant practices of the government. I don't know this topic well enough to support my case any further without doing some research, but yes I think that China has been isolated.

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Allowing a nation like China to host these games is like allowing Nazi Germany to host the games. The 1936 Olympics saved no one.

No those games didn't save anyone but they showed Hitler and the world that the Nazi supremicy ideas were wrong and that the Aryan race could be defeated on the field of competition.

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And yes, China has terrible human rights violations. Sure, they are not alone, but even my United States loses the pissing contest when we start to count bodies.

OK, its body count that you use to draw the line.

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China has been allowed to carry on as it does in Tibet, and the rest of the country, because the rest of the world sits idly by unwilling to step up because China is such a lucrative trade opportunity. Allowing China to host these games is coupe for the Chinese government - free publicity of the very best kind and a great deal of money.

I think this is exactly true. The world trade with China is exactly where we need to apply the pressure and if we are unwilling to do that then boycotting the games is just a token gesture.

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No nation is without some blame, but when the death toll from the ethnic cleansing campaign climbs into the millions, and an entire culture is being systematically eradicated - here there is no best venue for punishment, here there is no punishment. Instead there is the right the thing do, and then there is ignoring the plight of the people living within Chinese occupied territory.

Well you have made a great argument, one that has a noble and just motive. I certainly agree that something should be done in China and many other places to further liberty and basic human rights.

I just feel like the Olympic games should be able to rise above the pernicious termoil of governments to celibrate the indomitable human spirit. Perhaps you are right though, I may be underestimating what a boycott of this magnatude could accomplish.

I assure you that the only disagreement we have is on what action to take. If it could really help, then I would want to be right there beside you in support of a boycott. Nothing is really more important than basic human rights.

I will try to find out what the Olympic commities rationale was at awarding the games to Bejing.

0 Replies

@Didymos Thomas,

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Hello Didymos, I was late in responding because I had to get my appendix removed (ouch). I feel better now though

Glad to know you're feeling better. I trust the operation went well?

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Thats great I support your effort, but It would take a masively inclusive multi nation grass-roots effort to affect China in this way. I guess you are saying that if we all did our part we could effect change.

It's more than simply how my habits will influence China, because you are right, I will have almost no impact on that nation. But we should also be willing to ask ourselves what we should be doing - and pouring money into a tyranical regime is simply wrong.
I drive a car. Doing this helps prop up tyranical regimes. No one is perfect, but some mindfulness if better than none - and certainly better than saying 'who cares, what I do doesn't matter anyway' because everything you do matters.

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I'm guilty for buying alot of things from China, but thats what a free market society is about.

Free market society is not about buying goods from China. Free market society is all about letting the consumers run the market place by making informed decisions on what to buy and what not to buy. Price is only one factor. The blood of millions should be far more significant than a few pennies.

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Maybe the US should'nt have granted china most favord nation trade status?

Terrible decision - morally and as far as American economic interests are concerned.

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Again though, I think that exclussion of China is not the way to go.

I'm not advocating exclussion. What I'm advocating is that we the people wise up and develop some concern for our fellow man instead of our own pocketbook. High ranking Chinese officials included.

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I see your point and agree thats what I meant when I said that the Olympic games is a great reward. I wonder what the reasoning was on the Olympic commity to hold the games there, do you really think they forgot about China poor human right record?

Money, probably. Maybe we should boycott the Olympics altogether until the system is overhauled to be more socially concious?

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Chinas profound isolation is rather hard to ignore starting with the Great Wall. More recently I would site travel restrictions and obscurant practices of the government. I don't know this topic well enough to support my case any further without doing some research, but yes I think that China has been isolated.

The wall was built to slow invading steppe hordes and to keep the people of China inside the nation.

The nation may be isolated, but the government is not. They have a permanent spot on the UN Security Councel for gosh sakes!

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No those games didn't save anyone but they showed Hitler and the world that the Nazi supremicy ideas were wrong and that the Aryan race could be defeated on the field of competition.

The games did nothing to slow racism inside Germany. The Holocaust began after the games.
If anything, the games promoted Nazi Germany. Up until all out war in Europe, Nazi Germany received high praise from talking heads in the US, most famous being a particular Catholic priest.

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OK, its body count that you use to draw the line.

Did I say that, or did you want me to say that?

I draw the line on a case by case basis. China shows no signs of real change with regards to their human rights violations. In the US, similar violations are not as extensive, and vary depending on which party has power and how much power they have.

If you're interested, I suggested boycott for the SLC games as well. No reason to give such benefit to a nation growing an empire.

Hopefully this next election will redirect my nation.

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I think this is exactly true. The world trade with China is exactly where we need to apply the pressure and if we are unwilling to do that then boycotting the games is just a token gesture.

I do agree with you - trade pressure will be our most effective tool for promoting positive change in China. But these games promotes negative change because it tells China that we do not care about it's human rights issues.

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I just feel like the Olympic games should be able to rise above the pernicious termoil of governments to celibrate the indomitable human spirit. Perhaps you are right though, I may be underestimating what a boycott of this magnatude could accomplish.

Even if it accomplishes nothing tangible, I have, in my own boycott, not mindlessly given approval to the Chinese regime. Better than nothing, eh?

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I assure you that the only disagreement we have is on what action to take. If it could really help, then I would want to be right there beside you in support of a boycott. Nothing is really more important than basic human rights.

Oh, I know! Believe me, if I thought otherwise I would have called you many terrible names.

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I will try to find out what the Olympic commities rationale was at awarding the games to Bejing

That would be interesting - to see their argument. I fear, though, the official statement will be junk, and that money and power are the real motivations. They usually are.

On a side note, if we do exert economic force to promote positive change in China, we must be extremely careful not to harm the common Chinese people. It's the government, not the people, I take issue with. The good thing about an Olympic boycott is that such a thing will not cause, for example, mass starvation in China.

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@Didymos Thomas,

One can never make predictive statements about this type of thing, i.e. what will effect change in a nation. I can see the point of view that hopes that attention and scrutiny will move the Chinese as a nation towards social and political reform over time, just as their prosperity has moved them towards economic reform. It happened in the Soviet Union, after all. Isolated despotic states tend to only get worse over time -- look at places like Afghanistan, Burma, and Zimbabwe.

I fear that the strongest message that China could get would be for them to be sucked into another Tinanmen Square debacle. If the Tibet crisis turns into a sustained, bloody crackdown, then you will see people pulling out of the Olympics -- and it will be the greatest embarrassment China could possibly experience.

1 Reply

@Aedes,

Great discussion, I'll have to reavaluate my position!

I found a web site for the Olympic selection commity but I can't run Adobe so I am unable to read it.

INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE

Anyway, I will be thinking about doing my part and my responsability to support the misstreated and downtroden peoples of China. Thanks.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Write a letter to your Congressman and Senator. I did in Arkansas - haven't sent them to my new elected officials now that I've moved.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Bless those Olympic athletes who have already decided not to attend or compete.

I actually was blessed with the opportunity to audition for a reality competition series called Nashville Star (basically the strictly country version of American Idol), and the winner is supposed to represent the United States on the World Stage in Beijing, as well as obviously walk away with a record deal.

I sincerely respect those athletes who have decided against attending for staying true to who they are. That being said I think it'd be one heck of an honor to represent my country at the Olympics in any way I can, regardless of where it's held. If I was granted the opportunity to perform on that World Stage I sure as heck would be very grateful to take it. But that's just my view.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Which is why I think we have to reference our own circumstances. I couldn't blame you for taking such an opprotunity to perform, just as I could understand the up and coming athlete who has the opprotunity to compete in the biggest events of his or her life - the Olympics.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Which is why I think we have to reference our own circumstances.

That is very well said.

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@Didymos Thomas,

I was talking about the Olympic situation with a coworker today. To quote him: "It's a shame that the people that are going to suffer the most from this are the athletes that are going to miss out if it gets boycotted."

Wow.
I didn't carry on the conversation with him any further because he obviously has missed the point of the demonstrations so far.

I wonder though...how many people have the same thought that the ones who are suffering the most are the athletes?
How many people have missed the point that the real ones that are going to suffer in the long run are the Tibetans?
How many people have missed the point that the reason the demonstrations are being held, is because of what is happening with Tibet and China?

How many people wonder what the outcome would be if Tibet had oil...how would the American government react?
Would "Communist China" all of a sudden become a threat to world peace, such as Iraq and Afghanistan have?

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@Didymos Thomas,

Don't get me wrong, I would feel terrible for those athletes who have such an opportunity should the games go through a mass boycott, but those athletes will have other opportunities to represent their nation and compete. There are millions of Tibetans and Chinese who have no further opportunity to breathe.

0 Replies

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